vpFREE2 Forums

Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los Ang

#1

9. Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los Ang
Date: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:34 pm ((PST))

_Click here: Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los Angeles
Times_ (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/02/card-counter.html)

While the linked article does mention it, I would reinforce that in Nevada, use of a "device" to play would almost certainly not be legal, and I believe it is a felony offense. And the anti-device sentiment there is very strong, so personally, if I were doing it (which I would not), I'd consider myself at serious risk for jail time.

Even if you get off, you'd likely have some substantial legal bills. I'd be amazed if they just politely asked you to stop using a device; more likely they'll get you on tape doing it and you won't have much of a defense, I'm guessing.

Caveat as always: I'm not a lawyer by training or licensure in NV or anywhere else.

Of course, the other program described in the article, if it is only a training program, is completely legal if used to LEARN to count - and counting cards is legal (ie, you can't go to jail for it) but the casinos will bar you from blackjack if they catch you, and although it's beyond their legal options, have been known to do more on occasion.

I don't think they bury you alive in the desert anymore though :slight_smile:

--BG

···

===================

#2

I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to Las
Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas for
a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no
matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for a
while.

···

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM, <b.glazer@att.net> wrote:

  > 9. Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los
Ang
> Date: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:34 pm ((PST))
>
> _Click here: Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los
Angeles
> Times_ (
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/02/card-counter.html)
>

While the linked article does mention it, I would reinforce that in Nevada,
use of a "device" to play would almost certainly not be legal, and I believe
it is a felony offense. And the anti-device sentiment there is very strong,
so personally, if I were doing it (which I would not), I'd consider myself
at serious risk for jail time.

Even if you get off, you'd likely have some substantial legal bills. I'd be
amazed if they just politely asked you to stop using a device; more likely
they'll get you on tape doing it and you won't have much of a defense, I'm
guessing.

Caveat as always: I'm not a lawyer by training or licensure in NV or
anywhere else.

Of course, the other program described in the article, if it is only a
training program, is completely legal if used to LEARN to count - and
counting cards is legal (ie, you can't go to jail for it) but the casinos
will bar you from blackjack if they catch you, and although it's beyond
their legal options, have been known to do more on occasion.

I don't think they bury you alive in the desert anymore though :slight_smile:

--BG

===================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to Las

Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas for

a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no

matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for a

while.

=========== =======

Downtown still has 3/2 BJ and you can still see almost 1/2 of the show/deck. Agree that the strip is mostly a BJ wasteland.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com> wrote:

#4

Downtown was the final hold out. I lost a lot of shoe leather walking
between the Fremont and the LVC a few years ago, but even all of those
places have lost any good games. 3/2 is good, obviously, but without DAS or
DOA (which most Downtown casinos no longer offer) the game is pointless, no
matter how much of the shoe you see. Most guys that I know that are still at
it are playing nearly exclusively overseas or have moved on to sports
betting or front-loading. Even in my later days, I moved on to 3CP and
milked that for a short while - those were GREAT times, a lot of fun (still
brings a tear to my eye) until the casinos caught on :frowning:

···

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@yahoo.com>wrote:

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com<salguero%40gmail.com>> > wrote:

>I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to Las

Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas for

a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no

matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for a

>while.

  =========== =======

Downtown still has 3/2 BJ and you can still see almost 1/2 of the
show/deck. Agree that the strip is mostly a BJ wasteland.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Thanks,

Dennis
______________________________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthstewards.com/member_detail.php?id=76&selected=1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

While the linked article does mention it, I would reinforce that in
Nevada, use of a "device" to play would almost certainly not be
legal, and I believe it is a felony offense. And the anti-device
sentiment there is very strong, so personally, if I were doing it

(which I would not), I'd consider myself at serious risk for jail

time.

Even if you get off, you'd likely have some substantial legal

bills. I'd be amazed if they just politely asked you to stop using a
device; more likely they'll get you on tape doing it and you won't
have much of a defense, I'm guessing.

Caveat as always: I'm not a lawyer by training or licensure in NV

or anywhere else.

Of course, the other program described in the article, if it is

only a training program, is completely legal if used to LEARN to
count - and counting cards is legal (ie, you can't go to jail for it)
but the casinos will bar you from blackjack if they catch you, and
although it's beyond their legal options, have been known to do more
on occasion.

I don't think they bury you alive in the desert anymore though :slight_smile:

--BG

===================

N.S. 465.075:

It is unlawful for any person at a licensed establishment to use, or
possess with the intent to use, any device to assist:

a. In projeting the outcome of a game

b. In keeping track of the cards played

c. In analyzing the probability of occurance of an event relating to
the game

d. In analyzing the strategy for playing or bettiing to be used in
the game, except as permitted by the commission

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, b.glazer@... wrote:
____________________
This is a felony charge, not a misdemeanor. How would you like to
get backroomed for counting cards (counting cards is legal but people
still get backroomed for doing it) and while you were not using the
iphone device at the table, they found it in your phone when they
searched you, and then charged you with "possesion with the intent to
use a device." Don't think that Security or a Gaming Agent is going
to give you a break in this spot. I would never sit a a blackjack
table with that software in my iphone, even if my phone were turned
off.

#6

Dennis,

What did the casinos catch on with 3 card poker?

···

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los Ang
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:04 PM

Downtown was the final hold out. I lost a lot of shoe leather walking
between the Fremont and the LVC a few years ago, but even all of those
places have lost any good games. 3/2 is good, obviously, but without DAS or
DOA (which most Downtown casinos no longer offer) the game is pointless, no
matter how much of the shoe you see. Most guys that I know that are still at
it are playing nearly exclusively overseas or have moved on to sports
betting or front-loading. Even in my later days, I moved on to 3CP and
milked that for a short while - those were GREAT times, a lot of fun (still
brings a tear to my eye) until the casinos caught on :frowning:

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@yahoo. com>wrote:

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail. com<salguero%40gmail. com>> > wrote:

>I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to Las

Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas for

a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no

matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for a

>while.

=========== =======

Downtown still has 3/2 BJ and you can still see almost 1/2 of the
show/deck. Agree that the strip is mostly a BJ wasteland.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Thanks,

Dennis
____________ _________ _________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthst ewards.com/ member_detail. php?id=76& selected= 1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Only that it was the easiest game to beat in a casino with EV of more than
2.5%!!!
In a nutshell, if you can catch the dealers bottom card (which was
relatively easy) you had a MASSIVE edge over the house. So casinos started
adding a cut card to the bottom or changing the order in which the cards
were dealt. Advantage players kept the edge quiet for a long time but word
started to spread and it eventually made it to the higher-ups in casinos.

···

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Curt Hitchcock <vegascurt@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Dennis,

What did the casinos catch on with 3 card poker?

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com<salguero%40gmail.com>> > wrote:

From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com <salguero%40gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters |
Technology | Los Ang
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:04 PM

Downtown was the final hold out. I lost a lot of shoe leather walking
between the Fremont and the LVC a few years ago, but even all of those
places have lost any good games. 3/2 is good, obviously, but without DAS or
DOA (which most Downtown casinos no longer offer) the game is pointless, no
matter how much of the shoe you see. Most guys that I know that are still
at
it are playing nearly exclusively overseas or have moved on to sports
betting or front-loading. Even in my later days, I moved on to 3CP and
milked that for a short while - those were GREAT times, a lot of fun (still
brings a tear to my eye) until the casinos caught on :frowning:

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com<salguero%40gmail. com>> > > wrote:
>
> >I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to
Las
>
> Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas
for
>
> a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no
>
> matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for
a
>
> >while.
>
> =========== =======
>
> Downtown still has 3/2 BJ and you can still see almost 1/2 of the
> show/deck. Agree that the strip is mostly a BJ wasteland.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Thanks,

Dennis
____________ _________ _________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthst ewards.com/ member_detail. php?id=76& selected= 1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Thanks,

Dennis
______________________________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthstewards.com/member_detail.php?id=76&selected=1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I guess I'm still missing it. Ok - I see the bottom card, a 2H, what is the advantage on that?

···

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters | Technology | Los Ang
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 9:12 AM

Only that it was the easiest game to beat in a casino with EV of more than
2.5%!!!
In a nutshell, if you can catch the dealers bottom card (which was
relatively easy) you had a MASSIVE edge over the house. So casinos started
adding a cut card to the bottom or changing the order in which the cards
were dealt. Advantage players kept the edge quiet for a long time but word
started to spread and it eventually made it to the higher-ups in casinos.

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Curt Hitchcock <vegascurt@yahoo. com> wrote:

Dennis,

What did the casinos catch on with 3 card poker?

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail. com<salguero%40gmail. com>> > wrote:

From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail. com <salguero%40gmail. com>>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters |
Technology | Los Ang
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com <vpFREE%40yahoogrou ps.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 5:04 PM

Downtown was the final hold out. I lost a lot of shoe leather walking
between the Fremont and the LVC a few years ago, but even all of those
places have lost any good games. 3/2 is good, obviously, but without DAS or
DOA (which most Downtown casinos no longer offer) the game is pointless, no
matter how much of the shoe you see. Most guys that I know that are still
at
it are playing nearly exclusively overseas or have moved on to sports
betting or front-loading. Even in my later days, I moved on to 3CP and
milked that for a short while - those were GREAT times, a lot of fun (still
brings a tear to my eye) until the casinos caught on :frowning:

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Robert Romanyshyn <bobfpdw@yahoo. com>wrote:

>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail. com<salguero%40gmail. com>> > > wrote:
>
> >I think the whole discussion on this iPhone program (as it relates to
Las
>
> Vegas) is pointless. There haven't been many (any?) good games in Vegas
for
>
> a very long time. it might apply to other cities, but profitable BJ, no
>
> matter how good of a counter you are, hasn't really existed in Vegas for
a
>
> >while.
>
> =========== =======
>
> Downtown still has 3/2 BJ and you can still see almost 1/2 of the
> show/deck. Agree that the strip is mostly a BJ wasteland.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Thanks,

Dennis
____________ _________ _________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthst ewards.com/ member_detail. php?id=76& selected= 1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Thanks,

Dennis
____________ _________ _________
Read about my weight-loss journey:
http://www.healthst ewards.com/ member_detail. php?id=76& selected= 1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

You'd need to understand the rules of 3CP to understand the edge. But it has
to do with the "dealer has to qualify" rule in 3CP. If you know that the
dealer does not have a Q or better then you can capitalize on that.

···

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Curt Hitchcock <vegascurt@yahoo.com>wrote:

  I guess I'm still missing it. Ok - I see the bottom card, a 2H, what is
the advantage on that?

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com<salguero%40gmail.com>> > wrote:

From: Dennis Salguero <salguero@gmail.com <salguero%40gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Check out Appiphilia: Blackjack card counters |
Technology | Los Ang
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 9:12 AM

Only that it was the easiest game to beat in a casino with EV of more than
2.5%!!!
In a nutshell, if you can catch the dealers bottom card (which was
relatively easy) you had a MASSIVE edge over the house. So casinos started
adding a cut card to the bottom or changing the order in which the cards
were dealt. Advantage players kept the edge quiet for a long time but word
started to spread and it eventually made it to the higher-ups in casinos.

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Curt Hitchcock <vegascurt@yahoo. com> > wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> What did the casinos catch on with 3 card poker?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]