Anybody noticing increased scrutiny when cashing out free play tickets? Hosts/suits show up instantly out of nowhere, tickets mysteriously don’t work unless I go to the cage to get substitute tickets. I get the feeling that they don’t appreciate all that action that I am giving them.
CET is getting tight on the freeplay
you mean the same company that had to close a casino because they couldn’t sell it? Why would they ever tighten up . . .
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On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:42 PM, <davidcp…@…com> wrote:
Anybody noticing increased scrutiny when cashing out free play tickets? Hosts/suits show up instantly out of nowhere, tickets mysteriously don’t work unless I go to the cage to get substitute tickets. I get the feeling that they don’t appreciate all that action that I am giving them.
They are dopes who will NEVER get it. An illiterate serial killer like Binion knew more about running a joint than all these MBA’s from Wharton and the like combined. Give people a playable game of BJ-like 4 deck stand 17 with decent rules. Give them 97% slots and 99% VP. Give them a clean, modest room, free booze and a free meal or 2 and they will keep coming back.
People are busted out on these 89% penny slots. They need to win SOMETIMES. They need to see other people winning. They may not stop going completely but they keep cutting back and betting a little less when they do go.
Make no mistake-it’s NOT just CET but they are the leader of the pack to be sure.
In many ways, though, it IS cet. I always tell people, “you don’t think they get to be 23 BILLION in debt because they have a crack team of executives and negotiators working there, do you?”. You have to be a special kind of stupid to not only lose tons of money on a quarterly basis while running a casino
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On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:00 AM, <melbedewy1…@…com> wrote:
They are dopes who will NEVER get it. An illiterate serial killer like Binion knew more about running a joint than all these MBA’s from Wharton and the like combined. Give people a playable game of BJ-like 4 deck stand 17 with decent rules. Give them 97% slots and 99% VP. Give them a clean, modest room, free booze and a free meal or 2 and they will keep coming back.
People are busted out on these 89% penny slots. They need to win SOMETIMES. They need to see other people winning. They may not stop going completely but they keep cutting back and betting a little less when they do go.
Make no mistake-it’s NOT just CET but they are the leader of the pack to be sure.
They got to be $23B in debt not because of their casino management but because of their ill-timed LBO and previous HET stockholders profited enormously. That they haven’t been able to manage that debt is all about current management and it’s failures. HET changed it’s name to CET, but deep down it’s still the same old Holiday Inn casino group, just headquartered in Vegas instead of Memphis. Circus Circus became Mandalay Resort Group but deep down it was still Circus Circus.
You’re clearly wrong on this. Have you not seen their recent quarterly reports? They continue to hemorrhage money - operationally (day-to-day, month-to-month), they stink as a company and that has very little to do with events of, what?, 5 years ago?
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On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:37 PM, <vpbp2…@…com> wrote:
They got to be $23B in debt not because of their casino management but because of their ill-timed LBO and previous HET stockholders profited enormously. That they haven’t been able to manage that debt is all about current management and it’s failures. HET changed it’s name to CET, but deep down it’s still the same old Holiday Inn casino group, just headquartered in Vegas instead of Memphis. Circus Circus became Mandalay Resort Group but deep down it was still Circus Circus.
getting back to the original subject title, am i the only one to be getting way more freeplay and airfare than last year? of course it could be that i’m just losing more than everyone else. and i was 7* Tier 1 last year, am 7* this year, so that’s not it. curious. not that i’m complaining of course. just thought i’d chime into the conversation.
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ago…@…com
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 7:42 PM, <davidcp…@…com> wrote:
Anybody noticing increased scrutiny when cashing out free play tickets? Hosts/suits show up instantly out of nowhere, tickets mysteriously don’t work unless I go to the cage to get substitute tickets. I get the feeling that they don’t appreciate all that action that I am giving them.
My biggest beef with CET is that the properties have not been properly maintained. The Rio in particular needs to be painted.
getting back to the original subject title, am i the only one to be getting way more freeplay and airfare than last year? of course it could be that i’m just losing more than everyone else. and i was 7* Tier 1 last year, am 7* this year, so that’s not it. curious. not that i’m complaining of course. just thought i’d chime into the conversation.
ago…@…com
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On Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:30 PM, Agonpd <ago…@…com> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 7:42 PM, <davidcp…@…com> wrote:
Anybody noticing increased scrutiny when cashing out free play tickets? Hosts/suits show up instantly out of nowhere, tickets mysteriously don’t work unless I go to the cage to get substitute tickets. I get the feeling that they don’t appreciate all that action that I am giving them.
$2.25 billion of interest expense and $3 billion of impairment charges in 2013. Those are both very much tied to the leveraged buyout of 5 years ago.
Thats only 20% of their current debt. Stop living in the past and look at their recent quarterly financials. They hemorrhage money.
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:13 AM, <vet…@…net> wrote:
$2.25 billion of interest expense and $3 billion of impairment charges in 2013. Those are both very much tied to the leveraged buyout of 5 years ago.
Any idea when they will file for bankruptcy? If they do, will they lose their gaming license?
I can’t see how they’re still hanging on.
James Thompson
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To: vpF…@…com
From: funny.young…@…com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 09:12:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] CET is getting tight on the freeplay
Thats only 20% of their current debt. Stop living in the past and look at their recent quarterly financials. They hemorrhage money.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:13 AM, <vet…@…net> wrote:
$2.25 billion of interest expense and $3 billion of impairment charges in 2013. Those are both very much tied to the leveraged buyout of 5 years ago.
Thats a good question. If memory serves, this will be a pivotal year because some large debt becomes due in 2015 (something in the multiple billions, not just millions). So (I think) that’s a part of why they’re shuffling things around to that new “Caesars Growth Partners” company. I’m assuming that they will let the “most losing” properties stay CET while sheltering everything else (including the online gaming interests) in CGP. I also think that if this strategy comes through, CGP wouldn’t necessarily be poised for growth. I have yet to see one company/state take a stance on online gaming that can significantly grow their base.
I have no idea what this does to the gaming licenses but I doubt that being in bankruptcy re-structuring would immediately disqualify them from holding one. But I would think that it puts comps into jeopardy - at bankruptcy you would be a “credit holder” of CET.
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 10:33 AM, James Thompson <jamesgthomp…@…com> wrote:
Any idea when they will file for bankruptcy? If they do, will they lose their gaming license?
I can’t see how they’re still hanging on.
James Thompson
To: vpF…@…com
From: funny.young…@…com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 09:12:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] CET is getting tight on the freeplayThats only 20% of their current debt. Stop living in the past and look at their recent quarterly financials. They hemorrhage money.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:13 AM, <vet…@…net> wrote:
$2.25 billion of interest expense and $3 billion of impairment charges in 2013. Those are both very much tied to the leveraged buyout of 5 years ago.
That was a dumb question because the Palms and Station Casinos filed for bankruptcy and are still in business. It’s always hard working for a sinking ship. Moral must be brutal.
James Thompson
Fmr HRH Casino Monitor
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To: vpF…@…com
From: funny.young…@…com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:06:55 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] CET is getting tight on the freeplay
Thats a good question. If memory serves, this will be a pivotal year because some large debt becomes due in 2015 (something in the multiple billions, not just millions). So (I think) that’s a part of why they’re shuffling things around to that new “Caesars Growth Partners” company. I’m assuming that they will let the “most losing” properties stay CET while sheltering everything else (including the online gaming interests) in CGP. I also think that if this strategy comes through, CGP wouldn’t necessarily be poised for growth. I have yet to see one company/state take a stance on online gaming that can significantly grow their base.
I have no idea what this does to the gaming licenses but I doubt that being in bankruptcy re-structuring would immediately disqualify them from holding one. But I would think that it puts comps into jeopardy - at bankruptcy you would be a “credit holder” of CET.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 10:33 AM, James Thompson <jamesgthomp…@…com> wrote:
Any idea when they will file for bankruptcy? If they do, will they lose their gaming license?
I can’t see how they’re still hanging on.
James Thompson
To: vpF…@…com
From: funny.young…@…com
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 09:12:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] CET is getting tight on the freeplayThats only 20% of their current debt. Stop living in the past and look at their recent quarterly financials. They hemorrhage money.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 6:13 AM, <vet…@…net> wrote:
$2.25 billion of interest expense and $3 billion of impairment charges in 2013. Those are both very much tied to the leveraged buyout of 5 years ago.
In Atlantic City, the Trump Entertainment properties and the AC Hilton/AC Club had multiple bankruptcies and continued to operate and have gaming licenses in NJ.
RM
James Beam-
Respectfully- you are not understanding the situation correctly. What the poster pointed out were expenses from last year- not the actual debt. That added expense is caused by the debt, but does not represent 20% of the actual debt as you state. You are mixing balance sheet items (debt) with income statement items (expenses). If you take a close look at the financial statements, you will see that in general, even in AC, the properties make money- specifically look at the property EBITDA statistics- Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization. Las Vegas is actually doing pretty well, but AC is hurting them from an operations standpoint. But in a highly leveraged company, expenses are created by more than just operations.
I have no love for Gary Loveman, but operationally the company is not doing too bad- it is the debt load and the expenses related to that that is causing the problems Part of that $3 billion expense appears to be from them writing down the value of their AC assets- again, caused by the over-payment during the buyout, not from ongoing operations. The LBO was done at the top of the market- they thought the revenue streams could pay the interest expense and pay down the debt. Bad timing. Why do you think Loveman still has a job in a company that is loosing so much money? Because the Board knows he is dealing with a difficult situation fairly well. Don’t you think they would get rid of him in a heartbeat if they could find someone better to do the job? Yes- politics plays a part- he helped then get through the buyout, which has earned him some goodwill, but ultimately it is the bottom line that matters.
.
Just my .02- Lee.
I suppose we can all infer opinions from different sources.
Some of us read the papers
Some of us have CET email addresses.
Some of us can just do match and know things are unsustainable
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On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:45 AM, <lee.crow…@…net> wrote:
James Beam-
Respectfully- you are not understanding the situation correctly. What the poster pointed out were expenses from last year- not the actual debt. That added expense is caused by the debt, but does not represent 20% of the actual debt as you state. You are mixing balance sheet items (debt) with income statement items (expenses). If you take a close look at the financial statements, you will see that in general, even in AC, the properties make money- specifically look at the property EBITDA statistics- Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization. Las Vegas is actually doing pretty well, but AC is hurting them from an operations standpoint. But in a highly leveraged company, expenses are created by more than just operations.
I have no love for Gary Loveman, but operationally the company is not doing too bad- it is the debt load and the expenses related to that that is causing the problems Part of that $3 billion expense appears to be from them writing down the value of their AC assets- again, caused by the over-payment during the buyout, not from ongoing operations. The LBO was done at the top of the market- they thought the revenue streams could pay the interest expense and pay down the debt. Bad timing. Why do you think Loveman still has a job in a company that is loosing so much money? Because the Board knows he is dealing with a difficult situation fairly well. Don’t you think they would get rid of him in a heartbeat if they could find someone better to do the job? Yes- politics plays a part- he helped then get through the buyout, which has earned him some goodwill, but ultimately it is the bottom line that matters.
.
Just my .02- Lee.