Frank, I believe you've stated, or at least implied, that casinos tolerate or even welcome progressive teams. Seems that teams would hurt the casino bottom line when they remove wins from the casino, while ploppies would typically "recycle" wins.
Frank, or anyone, can you please elaborate?
Fred
PS - Great radio show Frank, and Bob.
The large jackpot that is banked, has to eventually go to a player, so it's not the casino's money. The casino still profits on the subsequent action. Teams give a lot of action, when the jackpot is big enough. The casinos don't make anything off a machine that sits idle.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <fred123@...> wrote:
Frank, I believe you've stated, or at least implied, that casinos tolerate or even welcome progressive teams. Seems that teams would hurt the casino bottom line when they remove wins from the casino, while ploppies would typically "recycle" wins.
Frank, or anyone, can you please elaborate?
Fred
PS - Great radio show Frank, and Bob.
You missed his point.
If a team hits a jackpot every dime of the jackpot walks out the door.
If Debbie Des Moines or Lorrie Local hits the jackpot there is an exponentially higher chance that money will be lost at the casino-either that day or in subsequent visits.
That is the other main reason, other than pure spite, why those huge meter progressives and Piggy Banking games are forever gone.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
---
The large jackpot that is banked, has to eventually go to a player, so it's not the casino's money. The casino still profits on the subsequent action. Teams give a lot of action, when the jackpot is big enough. The casinos don't make anything off a machine that sits idle.
Good point, but you are assuming the team never comes back. If that casino has a healthy lineup of good progressives, they'll be back. And they'll give more action than Debbie.
I understand where you're coming from, though, and I personally wouldn't even want to be part of a team, and I personally don't see why anyone needs to be in a team. If you're bankrolled enough, as you should be, then who gives a darn about variance? I would much rather work alone, and the only reason for working with anyone else would be to share information from scouting. Very few people would I trust to split wins with and share bankroll. It's not worth the headache, in my opinion.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
You missed his point.
If a team hits a jackpot every dime of the jackpot walks out the door.
If Debbie Des Moines or Lorrie Local hits the jackpot there is an exponentially higher chance that money will be lost at the casino-either that day or in subsequent visits.
That is the other main reason, other than pure spite, why those huge meter progressives and Piggy Banking games are forever gone.
Maybe the Casino's rationale is that they want the jackpots
to go to the non-pro to encourage more of them to come back.
Just like at the Carnival, they want some winners, otherwise
nobody will throw a baseball at the lead bottles to try and
win a pink elephant.
One would think a smart Casino would find a way to let
the pros have ther 1%ish edge, and still make money off
of teams and pros.
I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!
Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
comp them another and put their picture on the wall.
Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
or whatever. You could have a lot of fun with this kind
of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
I thought the days of hiring thugs and cops who were
fired for bullying and dishonesty were over.
Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
work our way.
That's the question of the day:
Can a Casino have advantage games on their
floor and make money off of them?
The Corrollary would be:
Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
(full pay - sorry) games than without them?
So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
staff and put your Children through College...
how would you do it?
--- On Sun, 3/13/11, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Casinos Tolerate Teams?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 11:08 AM
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <fred123@...> wrote:
Frank, I believe you've stated, or at least implied, that casinos tolerate or even welcome progressive teams. Seems that teams would hurt the casino bottom line when they remove wins from the casino, while ploppies would typically "recycle" wins.
Frank, or anyone, can you please elaborate?
Fred
PS - Great radio show Frank, and Bob.
The large jackpot that is banked, has to eventually go to a player, so it's not the casino's money. The casino still profits on the subsequent action. Teams give a lot of action, when the jackpot is big enough. The casinos don't make anything off a machine that sits idle.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hear the Sahara might be available 
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com>wrote:
Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
work our way.That's the question of the day:
Can a Casino have advantage games on their
floor and make money off of them?The Corrollary would be:
Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
(full pay - sorry) games than without them?So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
staff and put your Children through College...
how would you do it?Reply to sender<brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20Can%20Casinos%20Profit%20from%20Advantage%20Games%3F%20%20%28Was%20-%20Casinos%20Tolerate%20Teams%3F%29>| Reply
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heh, that was funny. Kind of interesting too. Something to think about. lol
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@...> wrote:
I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
comp them another and put their picture on the wall.Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
or whatever. You could have a lot of fun with this kind
of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
The situation is not whether the casinos can make money from offering pros good games. It is why should they.
We skilled players would all love to get free money and vacations from casinos.
If I owned a casino and I wanted to make money at it, I would not want any members of this forum as customers. There is no profit in any of us for them.
The only reason we get as good as we do is because most gamblers are idiots.
One of the more successful casinos in Las Vegas is the South Point and they don't offer any machines over 100%. They do, however, have a ton of games that are over 99%.
Progressives are great and I would love to see more of them. The casinos that I go to that have good progressives get very busy when the jackpots get high and most of the skilled players run like they were being chased after the jackpot gets hit.
As long as they find enough poor players to build up the pot, then the casinos may keep them around, at least until the locals that build up the pots start screaming that they can't get on to the machines when the jackpot is high.
Regards
A.P.
--- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Bruce Cohen <brucedcohen2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Can Casinos Profit from Advantage Games? (Was - Casinos Tolerate Teams?)
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 6:30 PM
Maybe the Casino's rationale is that they want the jackpots
to go to the non-pro to encourage more of them to come back.
Just like at the Carnival, they want some winners, otherwise
nobody will throw a baseball at the lead bottles to try and
win a pink elephant.
One would think a smart Casino would find a way to let
the pros have ther 1%ish edge, and still make money off
of teams and pros.
I also think they are super stupid about banning people.
If you are going to 86 someone, throw them a party!
Have the pit boss comp him one thing and the Host
comp them another and put their picture on the wall.
Give them a T-shirt that says, "I was 86'd at the Wynn"
or whatever. You could have a lot of fun with this kind
of thing, still keeping the Casino's options open.
I thought the days of hiring thugs and cops who were
fired for bullying and dishonesty were over.
Hey, let's buy an abandoned Casino and make it
work our way.
That's the question of the day:
Can a Casino have advantage games on their
floor and make money off of them?
The Corrollary would be:
Can a Casino make more profits with advantage
(full pay - sorry) games than without them?
So if it was your Casino and you needed to pay your
staff and put your Children through College...
how would you do it?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm assuming the team WILL be back-but not until the game is over 100%. I'm also assuming that the team leaves the second they hit the jackpot-which they will. It is in the casinos interest that Lorrie Local or Debbie Des Moines hit the jackpot because they invariably will, sooner or later, "contribute" most of the jackpot right back. The team will not. Neither will you or I.
The same math applies to individual sharks like us. Rather than waiting for the return of high meter machines (ain't happenin' pardner) I would suggest playing the few FPDW and 10/7 progressives around town. They're ALWAYS positive-though you may think the meters are stuck they're so damn slow!
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
Good point, but you are assuming the team never comes back. If that casino has a healthy lineup of good progressives, they'll be back. And they'll give more action than Debbie.
I understand where you're coming from, though, and I personally wouldn't even want to be part of a team, and I personally don't see why anyone needs to be in a team. If you're bankrolled enough, as you should be, then who gives a darn about variance? I would much rather work alone, and the only reason for working with anyone else would be to share information from scouting. Very few people would I trust to split wins with and share bankroll. It's not worth the headache, in my opinion.