vpFREE2 Forums

Casinos read our posts- Opinion

I have to say. If vpFREE members wish to find out where these

casinos

are getting information, they might want to look to posts on this

forum.

There is clear evidence that casinos read what is posted here and

react

accordingly.

Bob Dancer

Sure they do and why shouldn't they?

The casino managment knows that there is a heck of a lot more people
can recognize and good paytable or promotion than can play against
one, has the time and will expend the effort nessisary to take
advantage of it. They that both groups wont play anything but. They
also know that both these groups are willing to expend loads of money
trying and time in their casinos eating in the resturaunts, tipping
their employees, taking spins on other games. ect,ect ad nausium.

The casino managment knows the majority will still lose and spend
quite a bit trying to prove what their ego and pride force then to
beleive. That is that they too are earners. The sad fact is it is
these same qualities that keep them from doing the things the semi
educated losers need to do to win.

So why do the casinos keep yanking good games. Have The casino
managment forgotten what the old casino guys and every poker player
knows. you need winners in the game.

Just look at blackjack. The casinos made billions on that game in the
80's and 90's . why. because it could be beat . but huge numbers of
folks who knew it could be beat and thought they could beat it spent
many billions losing to it.

The casino managments reactions were the same . they were faced with
a small group of people who could beat the game for a small amount of
money reletive to the billions they were making. And so as a result
they did what the counters couldnt. they killed the goose and trashed
the game by limiting the egde by adjusting the rules.

Since many more people can recognize good rules and wont play without
them grossly outnumber those of that group that can actually beat the
game popularity suffered. it has suffered to the point that in the
last 10 years were there once was a sea of crowded blackjack games
there are really quite few and those are not nearly as crowded.

why do they do this you might ask?

Well it is my opinion that they want to improve the bottom line and
the easyest way is to reduce losers.

Why would they want to reduce losers if in the long run they will
make less.

Because they are not going to be in it for the long run.

The casino managment know their customers have changed. Not not the
blue haired quarter slot player but the real customer the Capital
Management Group who wants to purchase the entire property or
properties and hire them to run it.

evidence suggests that the current trend towards mergers and capital
group take overs will lead to casino goups selling out and taking
their billions and investing them otherwise. They can make more with
less risk elsewhere while still charging millions for running the
houses for the capital groups.

Its like trying to sell a old car. You spruce it up. Plug the major
oil leak and give it a tune up then sell it off. The difference here
is you can still make money by driving it for someone else. Lots of
low risk money.

Whats the difference between the old locals casinos bosses and the
new capital management bosses ? The difference is where casino guys
embraced risk capital managers shun it. Their cleints and
stockholders demand low risk and a steadly increasing return even if
it means sacrificing overall gain. the capital managers demand higher
stock prices their compensation depends on it.

Heres my perdictions for the next decade or so.

we will see further degradation of all games near breakever and
better. we will see further mergers and sales to "capital management
groups. We will also see further expansion in to traditionally non
casino areas of the casino hotel type entertainment center. This is
because these buisness need a play to stash their billions from the
tax man. And what better than dig a big hole in the desert and then
fill the hole with a construction project. A project where you can
stash further millions. The inevitable tax increase on gaming profits
will also furthering this shift away from the floors.

So with all our talking and squalking about this casino play and that
one or lack thereof will not do a dam thing about the continual
degradation of good casino games wether it be VP or BJ or anything
else they might come up with.

ITs already begun and the evidence is irrufutable. Sure people like
Bob, Dan & Jean will make a few more bucks on books and softwear. And
they will continue to take some money out of the casinos for the next
10 years or so as will the best players. But the good plays will get
fewer and fewer untill that all dries up. sure we might find a good
promo here and there, but the good overall plays will be gone.

So I feel it behooves us all to start making the change to a
different game or games as the industry surely has.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

great answer an i hope harrahs reads this as they have become to greedy
pulling out anything close to break even out of las vegas casinos. some
examples include 25c 3,5,10 play 25,15,9,4,4,3,2,1 dw 98.91% at rio
replaced wit with garbage nsud and 9/6 job at caesars. i hope after
buyout is closed new management treats its customers better or they will
lose them

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "timmer" <timmr21@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" bdancer@ wrote:

> I have to say. If vpFREE members wish to find out where these
casinos
> are getting information, they might want to look to posts on this
forum.
> There is clear evidence that casinos read what is posted here and
react
> accordingly.
>
> Bob Dancer

Sure they do and why shouldn't they?

The casino managment knows that there is a heck of a lot more people
can recognize and good paytable or promotion than can play against
one, has the time and will expend the effort nessisary to take
advantage of it. They that both groups wont play anything but. They
also know that both these groups are willing to expend loads of money
trying and time in their casinos eating in the resturaunts, tipping
their employees, taking spins on other games. ect,ect ad nausium.

The casino managment knows the majority will still lose and spend
quite a bit trying to prove what their ego and pride force then to
beleive. That is that they too are earners. The sad fact is it is
these same qualities that keep them from doing the things the semi
educated losers need to do to win.

So why do the casinos keep yanking good games. Have The casino
managment forgotten what the old casino guys and every poker player
knows. you need winners in the game.

Just look at blackjack. The casinos made billions on that game in the
80's and 90's . why. because it could be beat . but huge numbers of
folks who knew it could be beat and thought they could beat it spent
many billions losing to it.

The casino managments reactions were the same . they were faced with
a small group of people who could beat the game for a small amount of
money reletive to the billions they were making. And so as a result
they did what the counters couldnt. they killed the goose and trashed
the game by limiting the egde by adjusting the rules.

Since many more people can recognize good rules and wont play without
them grossly outnumber those of that group that can actually beat the
game popularity suffered. it has suffered to the point that in the
last 10 years were there once was a sea of crowded blackjack games
there are really quite few and those are not nearly as crowded.

why do they do this you might ask?

Well it is my opinion that they want to improve the bottom line and
the easyest way is to reduce losers.

Why would they want to reduce losers if in the long run they will
make less.

Because they are not going to be in it for the long run.

The casino managment know their customers have changed. Not not the
blue haired quarter slot player but the real customer the Capital
Management Group who wants to purchase the entire property or
properties and hire them to run it.

evidence suggests that the current trend towards mergers and capital
group take overs will lead to casino goups selling out and taking
their billions and investing them otherwise. They can make more with
less risk elsewhere while still charging millions for running the
houses for the capital groups.

Its like trying to sell a old car. You spruce it up. Plug the major
oil leak and give it a tune up then sell it off. The difference here
is you can still make money by driving it for someone else. Lots of
low risk money.

Whats the difference between the old locals casinos bosses and the
new capital management bosses ? The difference is where casino guys
embraced risk capital managers shun it. Their cleints and
stockholders demand low risk and a steadly increasing return even if
it means sacrificing overall gain. the capital managers demand higher
stock prices their compensation depends on it.

Heres my perdictions for the next decade or so.

we will see further degradation of all games near breakever and
better. we will see further mergers and sales to "capital management
groups. We will also see further expansion in to traditionally non
casino areas of the casino hotel type entertainment center. This is
because these buisness need a play to stash their billions from the
tax man. And what better than dig a big hole in the desert and then
fill the hole with a construction project. A project where you can
stash further millions. The inevitable tax increase on gaming profits
will also furthering this shift away from the floors.

So with all our talking and squalking about this casino play and that
one or lack thereof will not do a dam thing about the continual
degradation of good casino games wether it be VP or BJ or anything
else they might come up with.

ITs already begun and the evidence is irrufutable. Sure people like
Bob, Dan & Jean will make a few more bucks on books and softwear. And
they will continue to take some money out of the casinos for the next
10 years or so as will the best players. But the good plays will get
fewer and fewer untill that all dries up. sure we might find a good
promo here and there, but the good overall plays will be gone.

So I feel it behooves us all to start making the change to a
different game or games as the industry surely has.

I am grateful to vpFREE for all sorts of insights that have helped
me. There are also many private messages I receive that are equally
helpful.

My concern is not that someone will post where a full-pay machine is
located and that management, seeing that post here, will remove it. I
have no doubt that at all times management knows that sort of thing
anyway.

But, there are indeed certain "opportunities" that rarely arise, be
it in terms of a promotion or whatever, where the casino might
actually be at a disadvantage.

With respect to those circumstances, members no doubt understand to
share that information privately rather than to broadcast it to
casino reps here. We're your friends, the casinos probably are not.

···

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" bdancer@ wrote:
>
> If vpFREE members wish to find out where these casinos
> are getting information, they might want to look to posts on this
> forum.
> There is clear evidence that casinos read what is posted here and
> react accordingly.
> >
> > Bob Dancer

<<My concern is not that someone will post where a full-pay machine is
located and that management, seeing that post here, will remove it. I
have no doubt that at all times management knows that sort of thing
anyway.>>

Doubt. Doubt.

Cogno

i think the casinos make the decision to have full pay games realizing the average play including all tourists is about 2% below optimum

>
> If vpFREE members wish to find out where these casinos
> are getting information, they might want to look to posts on this
> forum.
> There is clear evidence that casinos read what is posted here and
> react accordingly.
> >
> > Bob Dancer

I am grateful to vpFREE for all sorts of insights that have helped
me. There are also many private messages I receive that are equally
helpful.

My concern is not that someone will post where a full-pay machine is
located and that management, seeing that post here, will remove it. I
have no doubt that at all times management knows that sort of thing
anyway.

But, there are indeed certain "opportunities" that rarely arise, be
it in terms of a promotion or whatever, where the casino might
actually be at a disadvantage.

With respect to those circumstances, members no doubt understand to
share that information privately rather than to broadcast it to
casino reps here. We're your friends, the casinos probably are not.

···

npf152512 <npf152512@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" bdancer@ wrote:

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Concur. Concur. VPFree probably costs me $10-$15K/yr in expectation.
You'd be surprised what's out there, and what management doesn't know.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@...> wrote:

<<My concern is not that someone will post where a full-pay machine is
located and that management, seeing that post here, will remove it. I
have no doubt that at all times management knows that sort of thing
anyway.>>

Doubt. Doubt.