Private email to vpFREE Administrator:
···
---------------------------------------------
I was just there over the holidays and the Pick'em at
the bars have been replaced with short-pays. I heard
the other $1 would be gone shortly.
Casino Windsor
Private email to vpFREE Administrator:
---------------------------------------------
I was just there over the holidays and the Pick'em at
the bars have been replaced with short-pays. I heard
the other $1 would be gone shortly.
···
--- In vpFREE_Detroit@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
They just don't get it. For most people who like to gamble, it's
the games offered, not the amenities offered. Yes they do have a lot
of sorta-Vegas-style entertainment in their Showtime Lounge and
that's great, and they do have a lot of slot machines on the floor
for all those devoted slot stuffers and that's good but why have
hundreds of video poker machines that just sit vacant most of the
time because of the lousy paybacks
If they want the "Rich Americans" to come back again they will
have to offer more, not less. I know they no longer make as much
money as they used to, and that's too bad, but it's their marketing
strategies, not because we Gringos don't want to play there. (at
least us video poker Gringos) Make us an an offer we can't refuse! I
asked old VP Pappy what he thinks about it, and he said this:
"It is your moral duty and obligation, to reject any casino who
doesn't offer you a fair game."
--VP Pappy
"Feeling sorry for a casino because business is bad and they
might have to shut down, is akin to feeling sorry for the Devil
because not enough evil people are dying and he might have to close
hell."
--VP Pappy
I will be going back in May to see Jean Scott and Brad during
Frank Scoblete's ghambling seminar, but beyond that, it will be a
cold day in hell before....
TM & VP
Last year, I recieved the following e-mail from someone in the
know at Windsor Casino which was enlightening.
"Since I also do work for Casino Windsor, I'd like to remain
anonymous. You may post the following info but please don't use my
name.
I have "clocked" the cashback at CW for Pick'em. I was also told
directly by the Marketing Director that the cashback for Pick'em is
much less than the othe VP or slots as they know it's payback is
better than most games and those games get the most play.
In fact, the Casino tried an experiment when they reduced the
payback on the Pick'em machines that were 25 and 50 cents. They
wanted to see if those machines would get as much play as they had
when they were full pay. The Casino talks in terms of "hold"
not "payback" or "full pay". They knew the hold was low on the full
pay PE machines so they wanted a bigger hold and figured that even
with less people playing them they would "net" more $. They had aslo
decided to pull all PE machines, if the experiment didn't work out.
Guess what? They were right......BIGTIME! Not only was their hold
more but people kept playing the short pay machines as much as
before.
The paytable didn't matter to the massess!! With normal cashback
you earn .2 on a standard PE machine at CW. With triple CB it goes
to .6 and Bonus bucks add another .1 if you hit that level. As I saw
no quads in December my Cashback cost me a BUNDLE! Hope that helps."
Private email to vpFREE Administrator:
---------------------------------------------
I was just there over the holidays and the Pick'em at
the bars have been replaced with short-pays. I heard
the other $1 would be gone shortly.
···
--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
They just don't get it. For most people who like to gamble, it's
the games offered, not the amenities offered. Yes they do have a lot
of sorta-Vegas-style entertainment in their Showtime Lounge and
that's great, and they do have a lot of slot machines on the floor
for all those devoted slot stuffers and that's good but why have
hundreds of video poker machines that just sit vacant most of the
time because of the lousy paybacks
If they want the "Rich Americans" to come back again they will
have to offer more, not less. I know they no longer make as much
money as they used to, and that's too bad, but it's their marketing
strategies, not because we Gringos don't want to play there. (at
least us video poker Gringos) Make us an an offer we can't refuse! I
asked old VP Pappy what he thinks about it, and he said this:
"It is your moral duty and obligation, to reject any casino who
doesn't offer you a fair game."
--VP Pappy
"Feeling sorry for a casino because business is bad and they
might have to shut down, is akin to feeling sorry for the Devil
because not enough evil people are dying and he might have to close
hell."
--VP Pappy
I will be going back in May to see Jean Scott and Brad during
Frank Scoblete's ghambling seminar, but beyond that, it will be a
cold day in hell before....
TM & VP
Last year, I recieved the following e-mail from someone in the
know at Windsor Casino which was enlightening.
"Since I also do work for Casino Windsor, I'd like to remain
anonymous. You may post the following info but please don't use my
name.
I have "clocked" the cashback at CW for Pick'em. I was also told
directly by the Marketing Director that the cashback for Pick'em is
much less than the othe VP or slots as they know it's payback is
better than most games and those games get the most play.
In fact, the Casino tried an experiment when they reduced the
payback on the Pick'em machines that were 25 and 50 cents. They
wanted to see if those machines would get as much play as they had
when they were full pay. The Casino talks in terms of "hold"
not "payback" or "full pay". They knew the hold was low on the full
pay PE machines so they wanted a bigger hold and figured that even
with less people playing them they would "net" more $. They had aslo
decided to pull all PE machines, if the experiment didn't work out.
Guess what? They were right......BIGTIME! Not only was their hold
more but people kept playing the short pay machines as much as
before.
The paytable didn't matter to the massess!! With normal cashback
you earn .2 on a standard PE machine at CW. With triple CB it goes
to .6 and Bonus bucks add another .1 if you hit that level. As I saw
no quads in December my Cashback cost me a BUNDLE! Hope that helps."
>
> Private email to vpFREE Administrator:
You mention that the Casino talks hold instead of payback.
I was at Fort Erie and this conversation came up with a tech about
VP. He insists there is a hold on these machines.
He went on to say that if you hit something large the advantage then
went to the house. Is this true with Canadian VP?
Does anyone know the law regulating to VP in Canada?
Are they random like Nevada or are do they fall under the regulations
of slot machines?
···
--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "vppappy" <tismurph@h...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> I was just there over the holidays and the Pick'em at
> the bars have been replaced with short-pays. I heard
> the other $1 would be gone shortly.
=====================================================================
They just don't get it. For most people who like to gamble, it's
the games offered, not the amenities offered. Yes they do have a lot
of sorta-Vegas-style entertainment in their Showtime Lounge and
that's great, and they do have a lot of slot machines on the floor
for all those devoted slot stuffers and that's good but why have
hundreds of video poker machines that just sit vacant most of the
time because of the lousy paybacksIf they want the "Rich Americans" to come back again they will
have to offer more, not less. I know they no longer make as much
money as they used to, and that's too bad, but it's their marketing
strategies, not because we Gringos don't want to play there. (at
least us video poker Gringos) Make us an an offer we can't refuse! I
asked old VP Pappy what he thinks about it, and he said this:"It is your moral duty and obligation, to reject any casino who
doesn't offer you a fair game."
--VP Pappy"Feeling sorry for a casino because business is bad and they
might have to shut down, is akin to feeling sorry for the Devil
because not enough evil people are dying and he might have to close
hell."
--VP PappyI will be going back in May to see Jean Scott and Brad during
Frank Scoblete's ghambling seminar, but beyond that, it will be a
cold day in hell before....TM & VP
Last year, I recieved the following e-mail from someone in the
know at Windsor Casino which was enlightening."Since I also do work for Casino Windsor, I'd like to remain
anonymous. You may post the following info but please don't use my
name.I have "clocked" the cashback at CW for Pick'em. I was also told
directly by the Marketing Director that the cashback for Pick'em is
much less than the othe VP or slots as they know it's payback is
better than most games and those games get the most play.In fact, the Casino tried an experiment when they reduced the
payback on the Pick'em machines that were 25 and 50 cents. They
wanted to see if those machines would get as much play as they had
when they were full pay. The Casino talks in terms of "hold"
not "payback" or "full pay". They knew the hold was low on the full
pay PE machines so they wanted a bigger hold and figured that even
with less people playing them they would "net" more $. They had aslo
decided to pull all PE machines, if the experiment didn't work out.
Guess what? They were right......BIGTIME! Not only was their hold
more but people kept playing the short pay machines as much as
before.The paytable didn't matter to the massess!! With normal cashback
you earn .2 on a standard PE machine at CW. With triple CB it goes
to .6 and Bonus bucks add another .1 if you hit that level. As I saw
no quads in December my Cashback cost me a BUNDLE! Hope that helps."
Firstly, Canadian laws vary from province to province, just as they vary from state to state in the US.
In Ontario where I live, most casinos are govenment-owned. In these casinos, the VP machines are almost 100% by IGT and Bally. Having logged about 1/2 million hands with reasonable results (from a mathematical viewpoint), I have no reason to suspect they're any different from the machines we play in Vegas.
While I haven't looked up exact legislation, I had a conversation with a "gaming commission" agent at Casino Rama one day. When asked this question, she indicated that Ontario's regulations were drafted using New Jersey's as a template.
Secondly, the terms "hold" and "payback" are both applicable. About the only playable game here is Pickem poker. These are housed in Bally multigames, which also contain Keno, Let-it-ride, 21, etc. If you watch the LED readouts when the techs have their cards inserted, the display cycles thru 8 or 10 numbers, the most important of which are "CIN 999999" and "COUT 9999999". These are coinin and coinout.
I've always watched these numbers. The "hold" is simply the difference between in and out. On the Gamemakers, the hold percentage (all games combined) is almost invariably between 4 and 5 percent.
The term "payback" refers to the E.R. of any given game. During setup mode, the techs can select, from the touch-screen menus, which games to support, and the payback percentage - ie - Joker Wild 97%, Joker Wild 99%, etc. All this WITHOUT changing the computer chip.
As far as the machines "tightening up" after a jackpot, I think someone's been pulling your leg.
Brian
You mention that the Casino talks hold instead of payback.
I was at Fort Erie and this conversation came up with a tech about
VP. He insists there is a hold on these machines.
He went on to say that if you hit something large the advantage then
went to the house. Is this true with Canadian VP?
Does anyone know the law regulating to VP in Canada?
Are they random like Nevada or are do they fall under the regulations
of slot machines?
···
tghysel <tghysel@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My reply follows:
In fact, the Casino tried an experiment when they reduced the
payback on the Pick'em machines that were 25 and 50 cents. They
wanted to see if those machines would get as much play as they had
when they were full pay. The Casino talks in terms of "hold"
not "payback" or "full pay". They knew the hold was low on the full
pay PE machines so they wanted a bigger hold and figured that even
with less people playing them they would "net" more $. They had aslo
decided to pull all PE machines, if the experiment didn't work out.
Guess what? They were right......BIGTIME! Not only was their hold
more but people kept playing the short pay machines as much as
before.
(capitalization used to show emphasis)
This is similar to casino patron mentality to 6:5 1D blackjack. To
unskilled players, SINGLE DECK blackjack is a great game. Pick'em
Poker now has a similar reputation. To unskilled players, PICK EM is
a great game. But to skilled players FULL PAY pickem is a great game.
Unskilled players don't care because they see the "single deck" and
the "pick em", without paying attention to what's really important in
the game.
Replies appreciated.
--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lavoie <blavoie46@y...>
wrote:
The term "payback" refers to the E.R. of any given game. During
setup mode, the techs can select, from the touch-screen menus, which
games to support, and the payback percentage - ie - Joker Wild 97%,
Joker Wild 99%, etc. All this WITHOUT changing the computer chip.
Hi Brian,
I did not understand this paragraph. Could you elaborate. Does it
mean they can change the payback/schedule at will?
DWK
Unfortunately I believe you are correct.
Regards
A.P.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: djmcosmo
To: vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:35 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Canada] Re: FWD: Casino Windsor
My reply follows:
> In fact, the Casino tried an experiment when they reduced the
> payback on the Pick'em machines that were 25 and 50 cents. They
> wanted to see if those machines would get as much play as they had
> when they were full pay. The Casino talks in terms of "hold"
> not "payback" or "full pay". They knew the hold was low on the full
> pay PE machines so they wanted a bigger hold and figured that even
> with less people playing them they would "net" more $. They had aslo
> decided to pull all PE machines, if the experiment didn't work out.
> Guess what? They were right......BIGTIME! Not only was their hold
> more but people kept playing the short pay machines as much as
> before.
(capitalization used to show emphasis)
This is similar to casino patron mentality to 6:5 1D blackjack. To
unskilled players, SINGLE DECK blackjack is a great game. Pick'em
Poker now has a similar reputation. To unskilled players, PICK EM is
a great game. But to skilled players FULL PAY pickem is a great game.
Unskilled players don't care because they see the "single deck" and
the "pick em", without paying attention to what's really important in
the game.
Replies appreciated.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe all modern Video Poker machines can have their paytables changed at the flick of a switch. I have watched the slot techs adjusting machines in Las Vegas,
and you can see the screen where the pick what games will be on the machines, and what version of the games they will choose.
i.e. when the tech looks at the screen for jacks or better he can pick which version he would like to appear, 9/6. 8/5 etc.
The game is still completely random and honest, all they are changing is the pay schedules. In other words Yes they can change the payback/schedule at will.
Regards
A.P.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: deuceswild1000
To: vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 9:40 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_Canada] Re: FWD: Casino Windsor
--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, Brian Lavoie <blavoie46@y...>
wrote:
> The term "payback" refers to the E.R. of any given game. During
setup mode, the techs can select, from the touch-screen menus, which
games to support, and the payback percentage - ie - Joker Wild 97%,
Joker Wild 99%, etc. All this WITHOUT changing the computer chip.
Hi Brian,
I did not understand this paragraph. Could you elaborate. Does it
mean they can change the payback/schedule at will?
DWK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]