vpFREE2 Forums

Casino Patronage Disclaimer

Casino Patronage Disclaimer
  
As a general rule, casinos make changes in their video poker
inventory hoping/expecting that the changes will enhance the casino's
bottom line.

Winning/advantage video poker players who play positive situations in
a casino decrease that casino's bottom line.

Most other paronage tends to increase a casino's bottom line.

If a video poker player(s) wishes to send a message to a particular
casino whose actions have displeased the player(s), the player(s)
should categorize their own skills and intended forms of patronage
and act accordingly.

vpFREE Administrator

I am unfamiliar with the April 21 Luncheon location as well as the food offered. Is there any chance of changing the location to a regular VP friendly establishment?

···

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I am unfamiliar with the April 21 Luncheon location as well as the

food offered. Is there any chance of changing the location to a
regular VP friendly establishment?

Here is the announced location info on the 21 April
vpFREE lunch:

···

On 4 Apr 2003 at 10:19, Les Silber wrote:

                        *****************

The April vpFREE lunch will be on Monday 21 APR at 11:30 AM
at Garduno's Mexican Restaurant at Fiesta Rancho, where it is a 5X
points day. Garduno's has a $6.99 buffet (excludes drinks) or you can
order from the menu. Salads are the only non-Mexican option.

                        *****************

Fiesta Rancho is a VP friendly establishment situated at the
intersection of Rancho and Lake Mead *, and Garduno's
(which is at/in Fiesta Rancho) is a highly rated Mexican restaurant.

This month's vpFREE Lunch will be held on 21 April at
Fiesta Rancho's Garduno's restaurant by order of SWMBO.

vpFREE Administrator

* Located in NNW Las Vegas:

http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html

<a href="http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html">
http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html</a>

I am unfamiliar with the April 21 Luncheon location as well as the food
offered. Is there any chance of changing the location to a regular VP
friendly establishment?

Fiesta Rancho probably has just about the best vp selections in the

city currently. The food is just a good Mexican Restaurant.
Regards,
Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Les Silber [mailto:lesfro…@…com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 10:20 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] April 21 Luncheon

Thanks Tom and Scott for the information. I guess I didn't see Fiesta Rancho on the original e-mail.

I am unfamiliar with the April 21 Luncheon location as well as the

food offered. Is there any chance of changing the location to a
regular VP friendly establishment?

Here is the announced location info on the 21 April
vpFREE lunch:

···

vp_FREE <vpFREE@LVCM.com> wrote:
On 4 Apr 2003 at 10:19, Les Silber wrote:

                        *****************

The April vpFREE lunch will be on Monday 21 APR at 11:30 AM
at Garduno's Mexican Restaurant at Fiesta Rancho, where it is a 5X
points day. Garduno's has a $6.99 buffet (excludes drinks) or you can
order from the menu. Salads are the only non-Mexican option.

                        *****************

Fiesta Rancho is a VP friendly establishment situated at the
intersection of Rancho and Lake Mead *, and Garduno's
(which is at/in Fiesta Rancho) is a highly rated Mexican restaurant.

This month's vpFREE Lunch will be held on 21 April at
Fiesta Rancho's Garduno's restaurant by order of SWMBO.

vpFREE Administrator

* Located in NNW Las Vegas:

http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html

<a href="http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html">
http://www.cheapovegas.com/cheapooffstripmap.html</a>

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vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html

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and

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That's a point I haven't seen made, and its a good one. I find it
doubtful that the combined play of this Internet group has a
positive expectation. Certainly if you combine the entire action of
the group - the play of the players in the group, the play of others
that accompany the players in the group, and spending in the casino
by all, the overall expectation is negative.

The one point you make that's impossible to achieve is players
categorizing their own skills. In my view, and its only an opinion
that I can't verify, is that most players that learn a bit, such as
which games have better paytables and some basic strategy points,
quickly reach a point where they think they are better players than
they really are. Ironically, the little learning they have achieved
actually has an adverse effect, as they go from playing chump change
for fun, to playing serious money at a higher, albeit still
negative, percentage EV. The danger is that the increased action
swamps the gain in percentage EV, such that the overall dollar
expectation is more negative than when they knew nothing.

How about conducting a poll with two questions: (1) Do you believe
that you play with a positive or negative expectation, and (2) Do
you believe that most members of vpFREE play with a positive or
negative expectation?

                  Casino Patronage Disclaimer
  
As a general rule, casinos make changes in their video poker
inventory hoping/expecting that the changes will enhance the

casino's

bottom line.

Winning/advantage video poker players who play positive situations

in

a casino decrease that casino's bottom line.

Most other paronage tends to increase a casino's bottom line.

If a video poker player(s) wishes to send a message to a

particular

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@L...> wrote:

casino whose actions have displeased the player(s), the player(s)
should categorize their own skills and intended forms of patronage
and act accordingly.

vpFREE Administrator

"LoungeLizard" <llounge@h...> wrote:

I find it doubtful that the combined play of this Internet group
has a positive expectation. Certainly if you combine the entire
action of the group - the play of the players in the group, the
play of others that accompany the players in the group, and
spending in the casino by all, the overall expectation is negative.

If a person or group plays with positive expectation, the casino
clearly doesn't benefit from their patronage.

If the combined play of this group is slightly negative, the casino
would in general benefit from our business & suffer from our absence.
But this isn't always the case. If the casino business ever
approaches capacity, then they won't benefit from the business of
slightly negative expectation players if they displace grossly
negative expectation players.

Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@attbi.com
http://home.attbi.com/~sresnick2/mypage.htm

If a person or group plays with positive expectation, the casino
clearly doesn't benefit from their patronage.

imo, that's an incorrect assumption. Expectation doesn't equal
results. The expectations are long term, but the casino still expects
a minimal profit at least from every machine.

Also, those players often play other games, bring other people with
them, spend money in stores or restaurants, etc. And if they come to
a casino in the first place because of the positive expectation
games, surely the casino most often profits from their business.
Obviously there are a few exceptions, but I think it applies even to
the majority of positive players.

lb

We had a 2001 poll and now have a 2002 poll on the voter's profit or
loss (including cash back) during those years.

These polls can be accessed in the vpFREE Poll Directory and
indicate that 51% showed a profit in 2001 and 66% in 2002.

I don't see much point in speculating on other member's VP skill,
since we know so little about most members, but I have just
created the following Poll on vpFREE SmartGroups (which anyone can
access without having to log in):

"Are you an advantage player who routinely plays positive situations
with sufficient accuracy to have a positive expectation? "

Details: A positive situation includes the expected return from the
game and from cash back.

http://tinyurl.com/8ve5

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/8ve5">
http://tinyurl.com/8ve5</a>

The Poll is now open.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 4 Apr 2003 at 19:03, LoungeLizard wrote:

How about conducting a poll with two questions: (1) Do you believe
that you play with a positive or negative expectation, and (2) Do you
believe that most members of vpFREE play with a positive or negative
expectation?

I live in OHio and there are no positive expectation games around. In fact as I understand it there aren't many except in Nevada.
Also most people forget there losses ad remember ther wins. Will the casinos in NV send you statements at the end of the year?
Indiana does.

David K

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: vp_FREE
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:13 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Casino Patronage Disclaimer

  On 4 Apr 2003 at 19:03, LoungeLizard wrote:

  > How about conducting a poll with two questions: (1) Do you believe
  > that you play with a positive or negative expectation, and (2) Do you
  > believe that most members of vpFREE play with a positive or negative
  > expectation?

  We had a 2001 poll and now have a 2002 poll on the voter's profit or
  loss (including cash back) during those years.

  These polls can be accessed in the vpFREE Poll Directory and
  indicate that 51% showed a profit in 2001 and 66% in 2002.

  I don't see much point in speculating on other member's VP skill,
  since we know so little about most members, but I have just
  created the following Poll on vpFREE SmartGroups (which anyone can
  access without having to log in):

  "Are you an advantage player who routinely plays positive situations
  with sufficient accuracy to have a positive expectation? "

  Details: A positive situation includes the expected return from the
  game and from cash back.

  http://tinyurl.com/8ve5

  <a href="http://tinyurl.com/8ve5">
  http://tinyurl.com/8ve5</a>

  The Poll is now open.

  vpFREE Administrator

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
       
  vpFREE Links:
  http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like your sense of humor. Poll closes Christmas 2008?? LOL!

Ned C
The Wild Joker

···

vp_FREE <vpFREE@LVCM.com> wrote:
"Are you an advantage player who routinely plays positive situations
with sufficient accuracy to have a positive expectation? "

Details: A positive situation includes the expected return from the
game and from cash back.

http://tinyurl.com/8ve5

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/8ve5">
http://tinyurl.com/8ve5</a>

The Poll is now open.

vpFREE Administrator

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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