vpFREE2 Forums

Casino Monitor Volunteers Needed

After tomorrow, any casino that's doesn't have a Casino
Monitor will no longer be updated in the vpFREE DataBase.

Casinos with a "No" in the Casino Monitor column of their
Index + Summary page don't have a monitor:

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/

Most vpFREE members are probably qualified to handle a
Casino Monitor's duties. Casino Monitor Details are at:

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_CM.htm

Most casinos aren't that hard to keep updated and many of
the smaller ones can be covered with a once a year report.

If you value the vpFREE DataBase and aren't a monitor yet,
contact me privately to volunteer. Monitors can be anonymous
if they like.

vpFae
Casino Monitor Coordinator

I have the opportunity to play either $1 single line
NSUD (99.7%) or Triple Deuces (99.9%) with about a .4%
cashback.

It seems to me I'd need about 3X the bankroll for the
triple deuces. Can anyone confirm or give me a 90% RoR
figure?

Mark

Regular play on the triple deuces at the dollar or .50 level will
generate the W2-G in large numbers. Depending on your tax situation
this could drop the the triple deuce EV well below the NSUD level.

Chris

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mark Marsh <butnpushr@...> wrote:

I have the opportunity to play either $1 single line
NSUD (99.7%) or Triple Deuces (99.9%) with about a .4%
cashback.

It seems to me I'd need about 3X the bankroll for the
triple deuces. Can anyone confirm or give me a 90% RoR
figure?

Mark

I do so hate W2-G's:)

kcace1024 <cy4873@hotmail.com> wrote: Regular play on the triple deuces at the dollar or .50 level will
generate the W2-G in large numbers. Depending on your tax situation
this could drop the the triple deuce EV well below the NSUD level.

Chris

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mark Marsh <butnpushr@...> wrote:
>
> I have the opportunity to play either $1 single line
> NSUD (99.7%) or Triple Deuces (99.9%) with about a .4%
> cashback.
>
> It seems to me I'd need about 3X the bankroll for the
> triple deuces. Can anyone confirm or give me a 90% RoR
> figure?
>
> Mark
>

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Even if the "limit" for the issuance of W-2G's were raised
dramatically, one's "tax situation" would remain exactly the same.

Oh...I see...you mean that you hate how you are slowed down in your
play, waiting for the W-2G's to be issued.

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Money Works <worksforthemoney@...>
wrote:

···

I do so hate W2-G's:)

Since the game is 99.9%, over a year I'll probably
have the losses to offset any winnings, regardless of
W2G's. Since there is more than one machine, I always
try to sit next to an empty machine so I can move over
and play there while waiting for W2G's. Positive
thinking and all that!!!

Mark

···

--- bornloser1537 <bornloser1537@yahoo.com> wrote:

Even if the "limit" for the issuance of W-2G's were
raised
dramatically, one's "tax situation" would remain
exactly the same.

Oh...I see...you mean that you hate how you are
slowed down in your
play, waiting for the W-2G's to be issued.

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Money Works
<worksforthemoney@...>
wrote:
>
> I do so hate W2-G's:)
>

Mark there are several tax issues to consider. First your itemized
deductions must exceed the standard deduction or a W-2G will raise
your taxes. Second you will need to determine how much room you have
before the W-2G income brings on the AMT, alternative minimum tax, and
raises your taxes. I like your positive thinking. Can you tell us
where all these empty seats with full pay trip deuces are located?

I am not sure what bornloser means by your "tax situation" remaining
the same, but the W-2G does change your tax situation as for as how
the IRS "expects" you to file. This issue has been discussed before
on VP free, but I think the bottom line is you can report your W-2G
income and losses or you can fight with the IRS to accept the session
method of reporting. I believe misscraps posted extensively on the
nightmare of trying to get the IRS to accept session reporting.

We had the triple deuces (.50 and 1.00 denomination) here at Harrahs
in Kansas City for a short time.
    
It was the perfect game when they had a promotion for $250 extra for
hitting a W-2G. Now Harrahs has no playable VP.

Chris

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mark Marsh <butnpushr@...> wrote:

Since the game is 99.9%, over a year I'll probably
have the losses to offset any winnings, regardless of
W2G's. Since there is more than one machine, I always
try to sit next to an empty machine so I can move over
and play there while waiting for W2G's. Positive
thinking and all that!!!

Mark

--- bornloser1537 <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

> Even if the "limit" for the issuance of W-2G's were
> raised
> dramatically, one's "tax situation" would remain
> exactly the same.
>
> Oh...I see...you mean that you hate how you are
> slowed down in your
> play, waiting for the W-2G's to be issued.
>
> .....bl
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Money Works
> <worksforthemoney@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I do so hate W2-G's:)
> >
>
>
>

"kcace1024" <cy4873@...> wrote:

I am not sure what bornloser means by your "tax situation" remaining
the same

I believe that bornloser was pointing out that if you strictly follow the letter
of the tax laws, you must report all gambling winnings, whether or not you
receive a W2G.

In practical terms, the vast majority of people don't strive to follow the tax
laws precisely. Far more commonly, people strive to file their taxes in a
way that conforms to their own ethical beliefs, while keeping the chances
of an audit or IRS problems to an absolute minimum. When this is the
case, the W2Gs do make a difference, since not reporting a W2G jackpot
will very likely result in IRS problems, whereas failing to report a non-W2G
jackpot has practically zero chance of doing so.

Stuart (RandomStu)
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/fungames.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

kcace1024 (Chris) wrote:
> I am not sure what bornloser means by your "tax situation"
> remaining the same

Stuart replied:

I believe that bornloser was pointing out that if you strictly follow
the letter of the tax laws, you must report all gambling winnings,
whether or not you receive a W2G.

In practical terms, the vast majority of people don't strive to
follow the tax laws precisely. Far more commonly, people strive to
file their taxes in a way that conforms to their own ethical beliefs,
while keeping the chances of an audit or IRS problems to an absolute
minimum. When this is the case, the W2Gs do make a difference, since
not reporting a W2G jackpot will very likely result in IRS problems,
whereas failing to report a non-W2G jackpot has practically zero
chance of doing so.

Chris contributed a caution that Triple Deuces (TD) play carries tax
risk over the potential liability associated with NSUD, depending on
your tax position.

bornloser replied, in essence - as I read him, that if your bottom
line result in each game were the same, the tax situation should be
the same.

Stuart responds that added TD W2-G's are pertinent if you report
winnings a little at odds with strict IRS guidance.

···

------

Chris is alluding to something a little more substantive than simply
the fact that ending up with a fistful of W2-G's from TD play (since
each set of deuces pays $3K instead of $1K) may mess with your ability
to temper the gross win you report on your play. W2-G's are not the
core source of the potential tax problem he's referring to.

No matter how you report TD results for taxes vs those of NSUD (for
example, whether your report gross wins as the sum of your W2-G's or
as the sum of your session wins), TD will necessarily yield higher
gross wins (of course, offset by equally higher gross losses, if play
results in either case are identical).

Gross wins are reported on the face of your 1040; gross losses are
taken as a Sched A offset to the wins. When reporting W2-G's as your
gross win, it's a no brainer that TD will yield a higher gross win --
you look to generate $30K in W2-G's generated from deuces hits in $1
TD for every RF hit that you won't see playing NSUD. If you instead
report net session results, the higher variance of TD means that gross
sessions wins will be greatly inflated as will losses.

In either reporting assumption, the reporting of higher TD gross wins
as a distinct hazard. When your adjusted gross income (AGI) rises
above $150K (approx ... higher, in some cases, on a joint return), you
begin to be subject to a loss of a portion of your tax credit from
personal exemptions and itemized deductions. If you play through 4 or
5 royal cycles of $1 TD in a year (a mere few hours per weekend), the
impact on AGI can be tremendous -- with a very painful increase to
your total taxes ... no matter whether the play ends in a net win or
loss for the year.

This is a hazard that needs to be considered for any higher denom
play. There have been more than a couple of players who have found
play above the quarter level to be more costly than is reasonable.

- Harry

YUP! I agree! This is always one of the more significant requirements of VP, to get us past
the bad streaks. The math is the math is the math, but, sometimes, it really does seem that
the math "gods" foresake us.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mark Marsh <butnpushr@...> wrote:

Positive thinking and all that!!!

Mark

I was saying that a person is liable for all of one's wins, not just the W-2G reported winnings.
In one's bookkeeping, one keeps track of ALL of one's wins and losses, not just the W-2G
reported winnnings.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kcace1024" <cy4873@...> wrote:

I am not sure what bornloser means by your "tax situation" remaining
the same, but the W-2G does change your tax situation as for as how
the IRS "expects" you to file.