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Calling All Experts.....

....but not on video poker. Just poker. I've been wondering about
this for some time now, and because of the bursting popularity with
WSOP, it piques my interest nearly every time I turn on the TV and
scan the guide.

The first most noticeable issue is the fact that, even though it's
likely that many of the jokers who play in the poker tournaments
smoke and they game is played in some of the most yellow-ceiling'd
joints in town, it's not allowed. Does that mean casinos are finally
coming to their senses, or does TV dictate the rules and casinos
remain a pit of bad habits in every sense of the word? I.e., where's
the common sense originating from?

The other part of my question is more directed at those who actually
have played poker in one form or another (I've heard Chris Moneymaker
got in the tournament last year by winning some on-line play-off of
some sort). I have only played in college all-night affairs where it
begins with 25c bets, after 6 or 7 12-paks the twenty's start getting
tossed onto the table, and then following several fistfights the game
abruptly ends as the sun rises. What is the fascination with some of
these guys being called 'stone-cold professionals' and why do the
announcers glorify one or two of them at a table as 'pros' consisting
also of three or four so called 'amateurs'? Is the word 'pro' merely
used to describe someone who has played in one of the tournaments
before, to describe someone who has WON one or more of these
tournaments in the past, or is there some other reason for the label?

As I watch them play 7-card over and over again (whenever I can put
up with all the commercial breaks and corny skits in-between) all I
see it being is nothing but a 100% pure game of luck. I clearly don't
see the characterization of ANY of them at any time as being "masters
of the game" or "skilled pros" or any of the other seemingly made-for-
TV glory monikers we have to constantly listen to. I mean, the entire
game is made up of the luck of the draw--especially when someone
goes 'all-in'. So a table of any amount of pros can easily be beaten
by a single first-time player if the cards fall his way when they all
start out with similar bankrolls, no? Obviously, no one's doing the
math to any degree that it's accurate enough to be of any value at
the table, especially with all the hole cards dealt. If you review
the background of many past winners you'll see some with no education
whatsoever and others who are truck drivers, etc. along with a mix of
those who can handle a calculator with ease. It seems always to boil
down to who gets the lucky card. Even the bluff bet appears to affect
the outcome very slightly, because when the player who very
occasionally does so is lucky enough to be successful, winning on the
bluff is seldom experienced by the same player repetitively since the
others rapidly are easily onto his pattern like a fly on Minnesota
doggie doo. Anyone got answers?

deadin7 wrote:

Anyone got answers?

Pros are players that play with their own money for a living. Anyone can win a tournament, but to make a living at it you have to be real good. The amateurs getting into these tournaments are being sponsored by someone else or it is a once in a lifetime fling for them so they can brag that they were in the game.

When you bluff with your own money on the line, it is quite different than with tournament chips. Most pros go to these tournaments for the after-hours side games in the casinos. That is where the real money is.

Bob

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Sommer - Top of the World
Coins <NL7HT@b...> wrote:

Thanks Bob. So you're saying that these tournaments we're watching
are something like slot or vp tournaments, where the 'pros' go to
them and have basically as much a chance as anyone there to win them,
but they're really there to play with their own money before and
after tournament play.

I also see what you mean about bluffing with your own money. Makes
sense.

Pros are players that play with their own money for a living.

Anyone

can win a tournament, but to make a living at it you have to be

real

good. The amateurs getting into these tournaments are being

sponsored

by someone else or it is a once in a lifetime fling for them so

they can

brag that they were in the game.

When you bluff with your own money on the line, it is quite

different

than with tournament chips. Most pros go to these tournaments for

the

after-hours side games in the casinos. That is where the real

money is.

ยทยทยท

Bob

deadin7 wrote:

Thanks Bob. So you're saying that these tournaments we're watching
are something like slot or vp tournaments, where the 'pros' go to
them and have basically as much a chance as anyone there to win them,
but they're really there to play with their own money before and
after tournament play.

You got it. In a 25-cent game you can't bluff anyone. In a $100 game
you can. I have played in Nevada in $100 games and when it is your own
money, you think about 'calling or raising' real hard. This is also
where the term "poker face" came from. If you have some mannerism that
reflects what you have in your hand, and many do without even knowing
it, the pros will eat you alive. In a video poker tournaments you play
a different strategy because all you want to do is win and you are not
playing with your own money. Poker tournaments are close to the same.

Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are a lot of guys you see quite regularly making the final
tables; Gus Hansen, Phil Helmuth, Vinny Vingh, Doyle Brunson, etc.
Yes it's just play money you see them betting, but the difference
between 1st place and 3rd in these things is quite a bit, like
hundreds of thousands of dollars. Guys like that who can
consistently enter tournaments, blow through the 2000 or so other
players and make the cut, then beat out their peers I would
definitely call them "professional". Win a couple WPT events, or a
WSOP main event, and why bother with those cash games anymore?

others rapidly are easily onto his pattern like a fly on Minnesota
doggie doo. Anyone got answers?

Truthfully I only watch WPT for Shana Hiatt. /mmmmmmm

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bonuspokergod"
<bonuspokergod@y...> wrote:

There are a lot of guys you see quite regularly making the final
tables; Gus Hansen, Phil Helmuth, Vinny Vingh, Doyle Brunson, etc.
Yes it's just play money you see them betting, but the difference
between 1st place and 3rd in these things is quite a bit, like
hundreds of thousands of dollars. Guys like that who can
consistently enter tournaments, blow through the 2000 or so other
players and make the cut, then beat out their peers I would
definitely call them "professional". Win a couple WPT events, or a
WSOP main event, and why bother with those cash games anymore?

I've also seen most or all of them get eliminated at those tables by
a 'newbie' or some no-name. I understand poker faces and mannerisms
and all that, but just like a ballplayer going up against a rookie
pitcher for the first time, no one knows what to really expect from
the new crop, and in poker that one strikeout can be a player's last--
veteran or not.

Truthfully I only watch WPT for Shana Hiatt.

Is she a spinoff on Paris Hilton? Where do I watch?

>
> Truthfully I only watch WPT for Shana Hiatt.

Is she a spinoff on Paris Hilton? Where do I watch?

No, Shana is actually attractive, and has a nice
personality.

WPT/Shana: Travel Channel, Wednesday nights, 9pm eastern.

And for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.playwinningpoker.com/photos/shana-hiatt/

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bonuspokergod"
<bonuspokergod@y...> wrote:

> >
> > Truthfully I only watch WPT for Shana Hiatt.
>
> Is she a spinoff on Paris Hilton? Where do I watch?

No, Shana is actually attractive, and has a nice
personality.

I see. But after I turned 29, personality became a meaningless
statistic.