Calculating The Payback For " High Fives" On VPW

[jackessiebabe]

I posted earlier today about an old VP game called High Fives. I had attempted to determine the payback of this game on VPW.
     
  Here are the steps I employed in order to calc the EV:
   
  1. click on Game King Single Hand Games
2. click on JOB, then select 8/5 from right hand box.
3. click on Options
4. click on Change Pay Tables
5. click on Edit Categories on right side of screen
6. click on Add 4OAK Category and add pay off for quad fives (250 coins)
7. click on Add 3OAK Category and add pay off for trip fives (30 coins)
8. click on OK
9. Name game High Fives.
  10. Verify that payoffs are correct on screen, when playing game on VPW
   
  Running this on VPW as 8/5 JOB, changing ONLY the trip and quad five payoffs, the analysis showed that the EV of this game, with perfect strategy, is an astounding 125.8%! The following additional results were also shown on the analysis page:
   
  12.01% of the EV is for quad fives which occur approximately every 416 hands and 45.6% is for trip fives, which occur approximately every 13 hands.
   
  After I posted this, a good friend emailed me, privately, to say that I had made a huge mistake. That the EV of this game is actually approximately 99.7%.
   
  Since my friend is extremely knowledgeable on all matters pertaining to VP, particularly in the area of math, I knew w/o doubt, that he is correct.
   
  Soon after that, a couple of other friends wrote that they had also done the calculations on VPW, using the same method that I had used. They both arrived at approximately the same EV as my first friend.
   
  One of them also pointed out that while ANY trip occurs on average every 13 hands, that trip FIVES do not appear that often. Of course, the same premise would also apply to quad FIVES appearing less frequently than every 400 or so hands.
   
  Since all of these informed comments made perfect sense to me, the entire analysis must be flawed..
   
  I did go back to VPW and run it again, for the THIRD time, with exactly the same results as the first two times.
   
  I am now totally perplexed! Is it possible that MY version of VPW has a glitch that other VPW software does not have?
   
  Have other users had the same or similiar problems while trying to calc the EV of other games?
   
  Was there something wrong with the steps I used, as outlined above, that caused this abberant EV %?
   
  Help! ((O:
   
  ~Babe~

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[Harry_Porter]

patricia swenson wrote:

  I posted earlier today about an old VP game called High Fives. I
had attempted to determine the payback of this game on VPW ...
     
  Running this on VPW as 8/5 JOB, changing ONLY the trip and quad
five payoffs, the analysis showed that the EV of this game, with
perfect strategy, is an astounding 125.8%! The following
additional results were also shown on the analysis page:
   
12.01% of the EV is for quad fives which occur approximately every
416 hands and 45.6% is for trip fives, which occur approximately
every 13 hands.
   
  After I posted this, a good friend emailed me, privately, to say
that I had made a huge mistake. That the EV of this game is actually
approximately 99.7% ...
   
  I am now totally perplexed! Is it possible that MY version of VPW
has a glitch that other VPW software does not have?

Ok, Babe ... I'm cursing you just now -- but, in truth, I have only my
own OCD to blame I was preparing to hit the sack an hour ago, but
as is my habit, tuned into vpFREE on last time. It was a given that
you snagged me in with this one.

Ok, you made just one modest error in setting up the paytable in VPW:
When you added the paylines for the 5's there's a button to select
whether the paytable applies to all cards or just specific ones. It
goes without saying that you wanted to click on "Specific" and then
check only the 5 box.

I was pretty sure that you neglected to go this additional step and
ran the analysis with the higher bonus payout indicated for all trips
and quads. I came up with your numbers.

However, when I reset the game to pay the bonus only on 5's, I came up
with an EV of 99.34% ... at odds with the 99.72% reported by Howard.

The likely answer for the discrepancy was that the paytable he used as
a reference was different than yours. That sent me on a scavenger
hunt for the correct paytable since he didn't specify it in his post.

It wasn't listed on any of the vpFREE paytable resources. A broader
search finally located the game in a reference on the GameMaster
Online website. In lieu of your recollection of bonus pays of 30/250,
the correct pays are 25/500. Using those numbers VPW calculated an ER
of 99.72.

Good night, guys!

- H.

btw, Howard appears to be accurate in saying that Frugal VP doesn't
accommodate this game. However, I thought there was some game in the
software that did provide a trip and quad bonus for a specific card
(7's?) that I thought might do the trick. I came up empty.

I'll note that I was very impressed with VPW in this instance. The
paytable modification to set up this game was extraordinarily easy
(sorry, Babe ;).