vpFREE2 Forums

Caesers downgrades

#1

To rephrase in a more diplomatic manner, so the already knowledgeable can
continue to play with a positive EV at the "expense" of the less informed
players, who subsidize us. The ignorant are usually not aware that they are not
"in the know" -- they will continue to play as they always have. And even
without knowing correct strategy, playing better paytables will make their money
last longer. As I see it, a win/win situation! They get to play longer and
eventually lose, we can play those good games with correct strategy and
(hopefully) win!

Brian (who is looking out for his own self-interest!)

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In a message dated 11/21/2006 6:27:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bornloser1537@yahoo.com writes:

Being a "devil's advocate" here...

So that the "smart" guys can live off of the "dumb" guys?

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@... wrote:

And NOT teach correct strategy for those good games, so the casino
will have a decent hold on them, and will keep them!

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

It's evident that HET's computer network can now identify players
like us who can play expertly and frankly not contribute to their
bottom line while we take advantage of the perks that our quantity
of plays affords us. In their defense if they can eliminate players
like us they can use that perk savings to offer even MORE perks to
the players who DO contribute to their bottom line.

Unfortunately, reducing the quality of the games offered may not
accomplish that. What they really need to be able to do is to tweak
their marketing programs so that expert players would receive LESS
perks than casual players who generate the same # of tier points but
are more profitable to the casino. What they lack right now is the
ability to spot expert play - they can only rely instead on their
knowledge of which machines we play, session data and long term P/L.

I suspect that in the coming 5-10 years casinos will have the
ability to analyze hand by hand play and be able to spot an expert
player almost in real time. Next step could then be something akin
to a "Griffin List". Heaven help us then :slight_smile:

To rephrase in a more diplomatic manner, so the already

knowledgeable can

continue to play with a positive EV at the "expense" of the less

informed

players, who subsidize us. The ignorant are usually not aware that

they are not

"in the know" -- they will continue to play as they always have.

And even

without knowing correct strategy, playing better paytables will

make their money

last longer. As I see it, a win/win situation! They get to play

longer and

eventually lose, we can play those good games with correct

strategy and

(hopefully) win!

Brian (who is looking out for his own self-interest!)

===================================

In a message dated 11/21/2006 6:27:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bornloser1537@... writes:

Being a "devil's advocate" here...

So that the "smart" guys can live off of the "dumb" guys?

.....bl

>
> And NOT teach correct strategy for those good games, so the

casino

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@... wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@ wrote:
> will have a decent hold on them, and will keep them!
>
> Brian
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

What they lack right now is the

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "budobermeyer" <budobermeyer@...> wrote:

ability to spot expert play - they can only rely instead on their
knowledge of which machines we play, session data and long term P/L.

------------------------------------

Sorry, but I kind of disagree a little bit about this theory.
By looking at a player's Win/Loss history year-in and year-out, casinos
should be able to spot whether one is an expert player or not.
The number of IRS forms that a player signs each time s/he hits a
jackpot in vp CONSISTENTLY year-after-year is also another area where a
casino don't have to watch/monitor how a player plays each vp hand.

...just my opinion...

#4

=> Sorry, but I kind of disagree a little bit about this theory.

By looking at a player's Win/Loss history year-in and year-out,

casinos should be able to spot whether one is an expert player or not.
The number of IRS forms that a player signs each time s/he hits a
jackpot in vp CONSISTENTLY year-after-year is also another area where a
casino don't have to watch/monitor how a player plays each vp hand.

"the number of IRS forms"... if you haven't asked Harrah's for a YTD
statement of win/loss, you will be amazed, they can tell you by the
Casino, who you beat and who beat you. They Know All.

Jim in Tulsa

#5

Actually, you have it backwards. Forgive me for being cryptic on the
matter, but that's all I'd prefer to say at this point in time.

That being said, it appears MGM Mirage and Wynn back players off the
mail on results rather than play analysis. Wynn is a much quicker hook
than MGM Mirage, but I'm assuming Wynn has a substantial information
database based on previous play elsewhere (they chose their hosts
carefully for a reason). Then again, many pros make it easy for this
to happen.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brunoflipper" <jimmccollum@...> wrote:

=> Sorry, but I kind of disagree a little bit about this theory.
> By looking at a player's Win/Loss history year-in and year-out,
casinos should be able to spot whether one is an expert player or not.
The number of IRS forms that a player signs each time s/he hits a
jackpot in vp CONSISTENTLY year-after-year is also another area where a
casino don't have to watch/monitor how a player plays each vp hand.

_________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

#6

The volatiliy of video poker is too large particularly when playing
games lile DDB, to know if a win/loss shows expertise. It really is
like BJ, you have to watch what games people play and ahd how they
play the hands. Wynn has no database about historical Wynn loss at
other properties- when hosts move properties all they try to steal
is the address and phone numbers and maybe lifetime theo numbers and
ADT numbers.

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

>
> => Sorry, but I kind of disagree a little bit about this theory.
> > By looking at a player's Win/Loss history year-in and year-

out,

> casinos should be able to spot whether one is an expert player

or not.

> The number of IRS forms that a player signs each time s/he hits

a

> jackpot in vp CONSISTENTLY year-after-year is also another area

where a

> casino don't have to watch/monitor how a player plays each vp

hand.

Actually, you have it backwards. Forgive me for being cryptic on

the

matter, but that's all I'd prefer to say at this point in time.

That being said, it appears MGM Mirage and Wynn back players off

the

mail on results rather than play analysis. Wynn is a much quicker

hook

than MGM Mirage, but I'm assuming Wynn has a substantial

information

database based on previous play elsewhere (they chose their hosts
carefully for a reason). Then again, many pros make it easy for

this

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brunoflipper" <jimmccollum@> wrote:
to happen.

_____________________________________________________________________
____

paladingaming.net

#7

brunoflipper wrote:

> By looking at a player's Win/Loss history year-in and year-out,
> casinos should be able to spot whether one is an expert player or
> not.

paladingamingllc wrote:

Actually, you have it backwards. Forgive me for being cryptic on the
matter, but that's all I'd prefer to say at this point in time.

Ah, com'on ... you know that "story" was broken a couple months back
(of course, most weren't paying attention :wink:

I'll give you points for continued discretion, *P*.

- H.