vpFREE2 Forums

Caesers downgrades

#1

OK, this is my swiss-cheesed memory working, but I remember a written quote
from a very way-up-there Harrah's exec, saying that players who know about
video poker paytables are exactly the kind of player that they DON'T want at
Harrah's.

Can I remember who said it or where I saw it? Nope.

Can I remember the exact wording? Nope.

Am I sure I read that? You betcha.

- Brian in MI

In a message dated 11/17/2006 2:14:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
a-p@sympatico.ca writes:

If I owned the casino I would not want any member of this group, myself
included as a customer. We do not offer much profit potential to the casino,

when compared to the countless ploppies and fish out there.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

OK, this is my swiss-cheesed memory working, but I remember a

written quote

from a very way-up-there Harrah's exec, saying that players who know

about

video poker paytables are exactly the kind of player that they DON'T

want at

Harrah's.

Until he remembered what those type of players can do for HET's stock
price.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@... wrote:

_________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

#3

paladingamingllc wrote:

  

OK, this is my swiss-cheesed memory working, but I remember a
    

written quote
  

from a very way-up-there Harrah's exec, saying that players who know
    

about
  

video poker paytables are exactly the kind of player that they DON'T
    

want at
  

Harrah's.
    
Until he remembered what those type of players can do for HET's stock
price.

Yes, and until he realized that the locals oriented casinos (even bars and Gas stations now) constantly advertise "X number of pay tables over 99%", "Best Pay Tables", and on an on. That information slowly seeps into the general gambling public. They may not run out and buy software and start practicing 2 hours a day, but they now that some VP machines pay more than others, because the casinos themselves tell them so. As long as that information continues to become more widespread, it will become less desirable to shun all players who know a good pay table from a bad one, because eventually, that will be most of the players.

The task for all video poker players who want to keep decent game available is to spread the word about good vs bad pay tables, as much as possible.

Thanks,
Skip

www.vpplayer.com
VPFREE DISCOUNT: http://www.vpplayer.com/GROUP/vpfree.html
(use vpfree/vpfree)

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Marksalot300@... wrote:

#4

Skip Said:

SNIP ...
As long as that information continues to become more
widespread, it will become less desirable to shun all
players who know a good pay table from a bad one, because
eventually, that will be most of the players.

The task for all video poker players who want to keep
decent game available is to spread the word about good
vs bad pay tables, as much as possible.

···

----

One look no further than seeing how strip
casinos have embraced card counters to know how true
your statements are. Now that the vast majority of
the public knows that card counting is illegal we're
well on our way to a better educated public being more
discriminating about where they play and shunning 3:2
games as ridiculous. Oh, ur I guess none of that is
true, is it. The vast majority of people just don't
care. It's why so many people play slot machines.

Why is this bothering people so much?

#5

Do we have an agreement or consensus as to what "decent" implies in this context?

98.5%?
99.0% ?
99.5% ?

more?
less?

IMO, an answer "as large as we can get" is not really a satisfactory answer.

And, what about things like "theo", and "cash back", and "bounce back", and "comp's"?

What about things like Platinum Clubs and Diamond Clubs and other forms of "perks"?

It is not a simple situation and we all have our own personal ideas as to what is important
to us.

What about if all "comp's" go away and we simply have the pay tables telling all?

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@...> wrote:

The task for all video poker players who want to keep decent game
available is to spread the word about good vs bad pay tables, as much as
possible.

Thanks,
Skip

#6

Don't about a consensus, but for a Strip casino, paytables and cashback that add up to close to a theoretical 100% with perfect play, would be my definition. This yields the casino an adequate hold, since most players (even the ones who know the difference in pay tables) will not come close to that.
Skip

www.vpplayer.com
VPFREE DISCOUNT: http://www.vpplayer.com/GROUP/vpfree.html
(use vpfree/vpfree)

bornloser1537 wrote:

···

Do we have an agreement or consensus as to what "decent" implies in this context?

98.5%?
99.0% ?
99.5% ?
    
more?
less?

IMO, an answer "as large as we can get" is not really a satisfactory answer.

And, what about things like "theo", and "cash back", and "bounce back", and "comp's"?

What about things like Platinum Clubs and Diamond Clubs and other forms of "perks"?

It is not a simple situation and we all have our own personal ideas as to what is important to us.

What about if all "comp's" go away and we simply have the pay tables telling all?

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@...> wrote:
  

The task for all video poker players who want to keep decent game available is to spread the word about good vs bad pay tables, as much as possible.

Thanks,
Skip
    
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#7

worldbefree22001 wrote:

One look no further than seeing how strip casinos have embraced card counters to know how true your statements are. Now that the vast majority of the public knows that card counting is illegal we're well on our way to a better educated public being more discriminating about where they play and shunning 3:2 games as ridiculous. Oh, ur I guess none of that is true, is it. The vast majority of people just don't care. It's why so many people play slot machines.
  

I think you meant 6:5 games, but I know what you're saying and agree there are some parallels, but there are also differences. Table games and machines are two different animals and the people that play them are also (no, I'm not saying we're all animals).

I'm pretty sure that a bigger percentage of VP player visitors know it's better to get 45 credits for a full house than 40, than the percentage of BJ tourists who know that getting a single deck game by accepting 6:5 BJ is a disaster. I think it's probably easier to spread the knowledge of how to recognize 2 or 3 good paytables (not talking about how to play it) than to teach BJ players how to calculate the return of a BJ game based on all the different rules in play at a BJ table. How many casinos post a sign above a blackjack table stating it has rules that give you, say, a 99.7% return?

What I'm getting at is that people who come to Las Vegas to play video poker are a lot more serious about their play than people
who come and play BJ. The average BJ playing tourist likes to get dressed up, looking good, and go down to the casino to play a little BJ, Carribean stud, Let it Ride, craps, maybe some roulette, see and be seen, go to dinner, see a show...

The VP tourist comes to play video poker. They will quite possible stay at a machine or machines for 6-8 hours at a time. Everything else is a side dish and most of them probably don't play anything else. They do care about the return.

  Finally, hasn't BJ declined a lot in popularity since it's heyday?

Why is this bothering people so much?
  

I think it's because the people here like to play video poker and the trend is towards less and less playable VP.

www.vpplayer.com
VPFREE DISCOUNT: http://www.vpplayer.com/GROUP/vpfree.html
(use vpfree/vpfree)

#8

That's really the point. It's not the theoretical, it's what's left in
the cash box after the pay outs. However, it doesn't matter what we
think.

Cheers....Jeep
.
.

Don't about a consensus, but for a Strip casino, paytables and

cashback

that add up to close to a theoretical 100% with perfect play, would

be

my definition. This yields the casino an adequate hold, since most
players (even the ones who know the difference in pay tables) will

not

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@...> wrote:

come close to that.
Skip

#9

Thank you! I can heartily agree with this kind of an answer.

But, goiing further, and I don't want to be "picky", how close is "close"?

....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@...> wrote:

for a Strip casino, paytables and cashback
that add up to close to a theoretical 100% with perfect play, would be
my definition.

#10

"Now that the vast majority of
the public knows that card counting is illegal..."

Card counting in Nevada is illegal? Since when? Casinos can choose
to BAN card counters but that's a far cry from being "illegal".

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

···

One look no further than seeing how strip
casinos have embraced card counters to know how true
your statements are. Now that the vast majority of
the public knows that card counting is illegal we're
well on our way to a better educated public being more
discriminating about where they play and shunning 3:2
games as ridiculous. Oh, ur I guess none of that is
true, is it. The vast majority of people just don't
care. It's why so many people play slot machines.

Why is this bothering people so much?

#11

My initial reaction was the same as yours...but after re-reading the
e-mail, I caught the author's sarcasm...at least I hope it was
sarcasm!!

Don the Dentist

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "budobermeyer" <budobermeyer@...>
wrote:

···

"Now that the vast majority of
the public knows that card counting is illegal..."

Card counting in Nevada is illegal? Since when? Casinos can choose
to BAN card counters but that's a far cry from being "illegal".

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@>
wrote:
> One look no further than seeing how strip
> casinos have embraced card counters to know how true
> your statements are. Now that the vast majority of
> the public knows that card counting is illegal we're
> well on our way to a better educated public being more
> discriminating about where they play and shunning 3:2
> games as ridiculous. Oh, ur I guess none of that is
> true, is it. The vast majority of people just don't
> care. It's why so many people play slot machines.
>
> Why is this bothering people so much?
>

#12

That was sarcasm. The implication was that
there are people that will take any proposition
handed to them. In addition, misinformation
(like counting is illegal) is commonplace.

Net; my opinion is that this is all wasted
effort. You won't change this decision. Anyone
who wants evidence should go to any other
LV HET property.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "budobermeyer" <budobermeyer@...>
wrote:

···

"Now that the vast majority of
the public knows that card counting is illegal..."

Card counting in Nevada is illegal? Since when? Casinos can choose
to BAN card counters but that's a far cry from being "illegal".

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@>
wrote:
> One look no further than seeing how strip
> casinos have embraced card counters to know how true
> your statements are. Now that the vast majority of
> the public knows that card counting is illegal we're
> well on our way to a better educated public being more
> discriminating about where they play and shunning 3:2
> games as ridiculous. Oh, ur I guess none of that is
> true, is it. The vast majority of people just don't
> care. It's why so many people play slot machines.
>
> Why is this bothering people so much?
>

#13

My Bad! I missed the sarcasm.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

That was sarcasm. The implication was that
there are people that will take any proposition
handed to them. In addition, misinformation
(like counting is illegal) is commonplace.

Net; my opinion is that this is all wasted
effort. You won't change this decision. Anyone
who wants evidence should go to any other
LV HET property.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "budobermeyer" <budobermeyer@>
wrote:
>
> "Now that the vast majority of
> the public knows that card counting is illegal..."
>
> Card counting in Nevada is illegal? Since when? Casinos can

choose

···

> to BAN card counters but that's a far cry from being "illegal".
>
>