I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5) . However, I'm usually a JOB player.
Does anyone know if I have to be discreet using my cheat sheet at CP?
I've never been bothered in AC, but LV might be different.
Also, I'll be by myself on the weekdays of the trip (family coming
over weekend). Let me know if anyone wants to have a bite with me at
the Diamond lounge in the non-smoking area.
BTW, does anyone know what the scoop is on the Diamond lounge at CP?
(I assume there must be one).
I have learned from a respected Pro VP player, that while it is
usually alright to use a use a "cheat-sheet" descreetly while playing
the lower denoms. (.25c) this is definitely contra-indicated at the $5
denom. I consider my source to be impeccable, and I would NOT attempt
this at CP.
Practice lots instead! I hope you have good fortune.
-Babe-
=================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5. However, I'm usually a JOB
player. Does anyone know if I have to be discreet using my cheat sheet
at CP? I've never been bothered in AC, but LV might be different.
I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5) . However, I'm usually a JOB
player.
Does anyone know if I have to be discreet using my cheat sheet at CP?
I've never been bothered in AC, but LV might be different.Also, I'll be by myself on the weekdays of the trip (family coming
over weekend). Let me know if anyone wants to have a bite with me
at
the Diamond lounge in the non-smoking area.
BTW, does anyone know what the scoop is on the Diamond lounge at CP?
(I assume there must be one).
FYI, I'm answering my own question. Diamong lounge opened only at
Flamingo of the new Harrah's properties. It's supposed to be very
nice and it's located in the old Chinese restaurant.
I'll be getting Platinum at Venetian. I'll let you know what its
lounge is like.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
sjs5572z wrote:
I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5) . However, I'm usually a JOB
player. Does anyone know if I have to be discreet using my cheat
sheet at CP?
I've never been bothered in AC, but LV might be different.
Well, I doubt anyone is going to come along to seize your strategy
sheet. But, personally, I think even quarter players should show
discretion in using them (laying it out on the machine display or coin
tray is in poor form).
At $5 I'd be concerned from two aspects. First, you look for decent
comp treatment on the assumption that you're no better player than
most. Sending up a signal with a strategy sheet isn't a good idea.
Second, at $25 a hand, I'd want to know a game cold -- at least when
it comes to basic plays that would be be detailed on your strategy
sheet. A quick peek at a strategy card every now and then to confirm
what you likely know is the correct hold is cool. But anything more
than that suggests that there's a good chance that you'll make errors
that will cancel out any advantage of NSUD over JB.
(I'll say from my own experience that I've been hesitant at the
machine - as a matter of discretion as well as inconvenience - to
check a hold when I think, but am not certain, I know what to do --
only to later discover upon checking that I've screwed up multiple times.)
A little more input than you've asked for, but in playing for some
serious bucks I'm presuming that you're serious about your play.
- Harry
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
sjs5572z wrote:
> I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5) . However, I'm usually a JOB
> player. Does anyone know if I have to be discreet using my
cheat
> sheet at CP?
> I've never been bothered in AC, but LV might be different.Well, I doubt anyone is going to come along to seize your strategy
sheet. But, personally, I think even quarter players should show
discretion in using them (laying it out on the machine display or
coin
tray is in poor form).
At $5 I'd be concerned from two aspects. First, you look for
decent
comp treatment on the assumption that you're no better player than
most. Sending up a signal with a strategy sheet isn't a good idea.Second, at $25 a hand, I'd want to know a game cold -- at least
when
it comes to basic plays that would be be detailed on your strategy
sheet. A quick peek at a strategy card every now and then to
confirm
what you likely know is the correct hold is cool. But anything
more
than that suggests that there's a good chance that you'll make
errors
that will cancel out any advantage of NSUD over JB.
(I'll say from my own experience that I've been hesitant at the
machine - as a matter of discretion as well as inconvenience - to
check a hold when I think, but am not certain, I know what to do --
only to later discover upon checking that I've screwed up multiple
times.)
A little more input than you've asked for, but in playing for some
serious bucks I'm presuming that you're serious about your play.- Harry
Thanks for the invaluable input everyone. I think I'll practice
the NSUD on the .25 machines. If I feel comfortable, I'll move
over to $5. If not, I'll stick with the JOB!
sjs5572z <sjs5572z@yahoo.com> wrote: I'll be at CP playing NSUD ($5) .......Also, I'll be by myself on the weekdays of the trip (family coming
over weekend). Let me know if anyone wants to have a bite with me at the Diamond lounge in the non-smoking area.
BTW, does anyone know what the scoop is on the Diamond lounge at CP? (I assume there must be one).
%$%$%$%$$%$%$%$$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$
We just returned from LV and asked about the Diamond lounge for Caesars. We were told that there was a "VIP" lounge and that they were building a Diamond Lounge. Not sure when it will be done. WE did use the new Diamond Lounge at
Flamingo--very, very, nice and the service the days we were there was excellent! Also, the same Diamond Lounge at Harrahs--again, outstanding service! Not sure what the criteria is for the "VIP" lounge. . .
Jean H--
You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1) I would almost prefer the Caesars NSUD not be discussed here,
especially in light of the ownership changeover. I suspect the bank
was originally put in for the locals who play there*, under Caesars
Entertainment, local play was accounted for differently (lots of
discretionaries). Under TR, it will be more a black and white calculus.
2) As a practical matter, bringing a cheat sheet to the game would
likely offend your fellow player. At small denom, noone would care. At
$5s, it would likely cause a problem.
3) NSUD really isn't difficult to play at least colorably. I could
probably make up a short top-down decision chart in seconds and maybe
give up .05 tops. The key is to remember all the straight flush draws,
two pair beats one pair, and that you play a pat 5K over 222.
4) In my long history as an AP, preparation is paramount. The game
isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Practice on a simulator first.
*compare with the four full pay machines at another Strip property,
which is known to locals as, ummm, "the locals' bank"-merely same
same but different.
_______________________________________________________________________
coming soon: www.paladingaming.net
<<< As a practical matter, bringing a cheat sheet to the game would
likely offend your fellow player. At small denom, noone would care. At
$5s, it would likely cause a problem.>>>
I am "offended" by knowledgeable players that play two video poker
machines at once. How do I "cause a problem" for them? To date the
only problem caused has been an elevation in my blood pressure by their
greedy behavior.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
1) I would almost prefer the Caesars NSUD not be discussed here,
especially in light of the ownership changeover. I suspect the bank
was originally put in for the locals who play there*, under Caesars
Entertainment, local play was accounted for differently (lots of
discretionaries). Under TR, it will be more a black and white
calculus.
2) As a practical matter, bringing a cheat sheet to the game would
likely offend your fellow player. At small denom, noone would
care. At
$5s, it would likely cause a problem.
3) NSUD really isn't difficult to play at least colorably. I could
probably make up a short top-down decision chart in seconds and
maybe
give up .05 tops. The key is to remember all the straight flush
draws,
two pair beats one pair, and that you play a pat 5K over 222.
4) In my long history as an AP, preparation is paramount. The game
isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Practice on a simulator first.*compare with the four full pay machines at another Strip property,
which is known to locals as, ummm, "the locals' bank"-merely same
same but different.I am a tournament Scrabble player. In the context of Scrabble,
obviously a word list would be very offensive. However, how could
using a cheat sheet in VP offend a fellow player? I'm playing
against the House, not against my fellow player. The only way I
could see it being offensive is if I was playing slowly, and someone
was waiting for my machine. VP is not a cometitive sport.
_____________________________________________________________________
__
coming soon: www.paladingaming.net
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
1) I would almost prefer the Caesars NSUD not be discussed here,
especially in light of the ownership changeover. I suspect the bank
was originally put in for the locals who play there*, under Caesars
Entertainment, local play was accounted for differently (lots of
discretionaries). Under TR, it will be more a black and white
calculus.
2) As a practical matter, bringing a cheat sheet to the game would
likely offend your fellow player. At small denom, noone would
care. At
$5s, it would likely cause a problem.
3) NSUD really isn't difficult to play at least colorably. I could
probably make up a short top-down decision chart in seconds and
maybe
give up .05 tops. The key is to remember all the straight flush
draws,
two pair beats one pair, and that you play a pat 5K over 222.
4) In my long history as an AP, preparation is paramount. The game
isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Practice on a simulator first.*compare with the four full pay machines at another Strip property,
which is known to locals as, ummm, "the locals' bank"-merely same
same but different.Additionally, I don't feel that $5 NSUD at CP is an "entitlement"
for the locals. When Nevada institutes a state income tax, you can
talk to me about entitlements.
It's interesting that you are a tournamement Scrabble player. Do
you know Mark, who posts on the Reno board? That is his passion also
(as well as VP).
Up until I was educated, by a knowledgable VP Pro, I thought as you
did, regarding the obvious, often blatant display of Strategy
Sheets. I thought this was harmless, and re-inforced the illusion to
any casino personnel observing them, that the player was a rank
amateur. I was told that, on the contrary, any player using a SS,
is considered to be an advantage player whose patronage was
undesirable.
Additionally, it was patiently explained to me, (which I now fully
understand) is that, blatantly displaying strategy sheets causes
undue and unwanted attention to focus on the machines that are being
played during their useage. This can then create suspicion, that
the game is too favorable to the player, causing the suits to
decide to change the paytable, shut down the machines, or even
trespass those playing, as suspected pros.
When I questioned the likihood of pros using a SS, I was informed
that not all pros play ALL games at 100% accuracy. At higher
denoms. the use of a SS while unusual, would not be unheard of, if
they were playing a game that was new to them.
However, particularly at $5.00 denom. and higher, most pros in this
situation, who cared about having the game last, would have the
good sense not to use SS.
This makes sense to me. Perhaps it will give you a little more
insight as to why a pro might have an adverse reaction to the use of
a SS in the High Limit Room.
-Babe-
================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
I am a tournament Scrabble player. In the context of Scrabble,
obviously a word list would be very offensive. However, how could
using a cheat sheet in VP offend a fellow player? I'm playing
against the House, not against my fellow player. The only way I
could see it being offensive is if I was playing slowly, and someone
was waiting for my machine. VP is not a cometitive sport.
Babe, thanks for the great explanation. I wasn't getting it either, but your explanation makes a lot of sense. These days, I hardly ever use my SS (although I keep it with me at all times). Even though I usually play quarters (or less), I'll be sure to keep my SS tucked away and just refer to it in the ladies room, where hopefully, there's no "eye in the sky" <g>.
Lainie
jackessiebabe <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's interesting that you are a tournamement Scrabble player. Do
you know Mark, who posts on the Reno board? That is his passion also
(as well as VP).
Up until I was educated, by a knowledgable VP Pro, I thought as you
did, regarding the obvious, often blatant display of Strategy
Sheets. I thought this was harmless, and re-inforced the illusion to
any casino personnel observing them, that the player was a rank
amateur. I was told that, on the contrary, any player using a SS,
is considered to be an advantage player whose patronage was
undesirable.
Additionally, it was patiently explained to me, (which I now fully
understand) is that, blatantly displaying strategy sheets causes
undue and unwanted attention to focus on the machines that are being
played during their useage. This can then create suspicion, that
the game is too favorable to the player, causing the suits to
decide to change the paytable, shut down the machines, or even
trespass those playing, as suspected pros.
When I questioned the likihood of pros using a SS, I was informed
that not all pros play ALL games at 100% accuracy. At higher
denoms. the use of a SS while unusual, would not be unheard of, if
they were playing a game that was new to them.
However, particularly at $5.00 denom. and higher, most pros in this
situation, who cared about having the game last, would have the
good sense not to use SS.
This makes sense to me. Perhaps it will give you a little more
insight as to why a pro might have an adverse reaction to the use of
a SS in the High Limit Room.
-Babe-
================================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
I am a tournament Scrabble player. In the context of Scrabble,
obviously a word list would be very offensive. However, how could
using a cheat sheet in VP offend a fellow player? I'm playing
against the House, not against my fellow player. The only way I
could see it being offensive is if I was playing slowly, and someone
was waiting for my machine. VP is not a cometitive sport.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Lainie,
Thanks for the compliment, but I can't take credit for the idea.
It had to be drummed into me slowly by a much more knowledgable
player.
BTW, in an earlier post I tried to explain that my friend also told
me that the usuage of "cheat sheets" by lower denom. players (single
line quarters or less) was relatively harmless. This is usually
overlooked by casino personnel, particularly if done unobtrusively.
I wouldn't be too sure that there's no ceiling peephole in the
Ladies Room. Those suits are determined to know EVERYTHING that's
happening in their domain!
Regards,
-Babe-
==========================================
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@...> wrote:
Babe, thanks for the great explanation. I wasn't getting it either,
but your explanation makes a lot of sense. These days, I hardly
ever use my SS (although I keep it with me at all times). Even
though I usually play quarters (or less), I'll be sure to keep my SS
tucked away and just refer to it in the ladies room, where
hopefully, there's no "eye in the sky" <g>.
Lainie
I agree with you 100% (or maybe should I say 200%?). It looks really
bad. I have never seen a "square" playing two VP machines at once-two
reels, yes, often, but no two VPs.
One authority has noted the very high skill level associated with
being able to play two machines at once; I'll add the very high level
of concentration needed as well.
In this business, particularly VP, truly economy-minded individuals
will be encountered. While I respect the certain mindset which is
necessary to being a successful AP, I have always thought the better
process was to utilize some street smarts and not be a total pig 100%
of the time. Some people can't help themselves, however.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:
I am "offended" by knowledgeable players that play two video poker
machines at once. How do I "cause a problem" for them? To date the
only problem caused has been an elevation in my blood pressure by their
greedy behavior.
_______________________________________________________________________
coming soon: www.paladingaming.net
You'll have to discuss that one with the management. I'm not claiming
any entitlement there, actually, I hardly ever play at CP. It's more
management's philosophy about what takes to bring in the wealthier
Vegas resident (and there are quite a few wealthy suburban housewives
who play that bank). Sure as hell beats $25 a week and the occasional
Carmel Room comp at Rampart.
Regarding the cheat sheets, the prevailing philosophy is that VP is a
game of skill and players need some sort of spot; if the machines paid
95%, players would go broke quickly, and probably not return. That's
the theory, their's, not mine. Bringing a cheat sheet destroys that
fantasy quickly, especially if you bring the VPSM sheet, which clearly
marks the 99.73% payout on the sheet.
While VP is not a competitive sport, certain machines are obviously
much more desired than others. If the majority of play on these
machines are from skilled players, I can assure you that the machines
will be downgraded in due course. The casinos are not in business to
provide unprofitable games to its consumer base. Some of you are still
unaware of that theory. Something like this happened at South Coast
recently. Team play, and many of those players came in with cheat
sheets, were responsible for the early demise of the 10-6-40 DDB
50-line play. I mean, a couple of REAL burnout artists were bitching
to me about not being able to get on!
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sjs5572z" <sjs5572z@...> wrote:
> Additionally, I don't feel that $5 NSUD at CP is an "entitlement"
for the locals. When Nevada institutes a state income tax, you can
talk to me about entitlements.
_______________________________________________________________________
coming soon: www.paladingaming.net
In several senses video poker players are in competition with one another.
I believe that the primary reason another player might object to your
indiscreet use of a strategy chart, however, is that it may bring unwanted
attention and/or a paytable reduction from management. Frankly, I think
management would be better served by reassessing how much filler they put in
the buffet's daily mystery meat offering than sweating strategy card use by
quarter players, but a little circumspection on a valued high denomination
play is probably in order.
Chandler
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
sjs5572z
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 5:56 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: caesars palace 2/1-2/6
I am a tournament Scrabble player. In the context of Scrabble,
obviously a word list would be very offensive. However, how could
using a cheat sheet in VP offend a fellow player? I'm playing
against the House, not against my fellow player. The only way I
could see it being offensive is if I was playing slowly, and someone
was waiting for my machine. VP is not a cometitive sport.
_____________________________________________________________________
<<and there are quite a few wealthy suburban housewives
who play that bank>>
Hummmmm. Young trophy wives? Old blue-haired widows, fingers weighed down with gold and silver, always smoking? Old advantage players, blonde and bubbly who go crazy when they hit a jackpot?
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
of your questions!