Bob Dancer's LVA - 31 MAR 2015
A Legal Case Involving Auto-Hold
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0331.cfm
*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************
"The machine would regularly recommend holding a suited ace-ten in Jacks or Better --- which is a horrendous play"
This is a normal play if you are using MCR strategy and I would hardly call it horrendous.
Hopefully this is something noti would say 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This link is the filed lawsuit with all the details
http://media.oregonlive.com/mapes/other/DocumentFragment_17274194.tif
I live in Oregon and the VLT's are cited across the country as one of the worst bets you can make
Here is an image I took of JOB @ 7/5
John Oliver also has a few things to say about the Oregon lottery too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PK-netuhHA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Seems like ATs can't be a "horrendous play" if it minimizes the average cost of a royal. But I guess for "maxEV zealots" any deviation from maxEV strategy is "horrendous".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
All video pokers in Montana are autohold. They don't even have hold buttons. There is a deal/draw button and you have to tap the screen to change the hold. I play just as fast as on Nevada type machines because I only have to change about 1 out of 8 hands.
IGT is a minor player here. I don't have even one play on an IGT machine. The major players are Summit, Fleetwood, Spielo, and Grand Sierra. With Summit there is a statement on the help screen "Cards marked hold suggests a play strategy but do not guarantee optimum return." Mvet, since you live in Oregon, could you check and see if there is any language in the help screens about the autohold feature and let us know?
About a dozen years ago or so I had a 20-coin nickel 17/10 Loose Deuce play at the Carson Nugget with a $10,000 reversible sequential royal. It was on the VLT looking machines made by IGT. They had autohold that played flawless except for the two-card sequential royal holds. Since its about 97,000 to 1 to catch a sequential in that spot I decided to ignore it and keep my speed up. I played 2 machines at once cranking out about 2000 HPH.
Note, Grand sierra should read Grand Vision.
In order to enlighten anyone that may be interested, I will reveal what may be the only auto hold machines in Las Vegas. At the venerable el Cortez there exists 6 machines that are manufactured by U1 gaming, and these machines have a feature that is optional, called U1 Pro-Hold. In exchange for a poorer pay table this feature will supposedly give you the optimal play for every hand. I have played these machines because they have some fun games on them, but I have never used the auto hold.
Regards
A.P.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 31, 2015, at 11:37 AM, vpFREE3355 vpfree3355@gmail.com [vpFREE] <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Bob Dancer's LVA - 31 MAR 2015
A Legal Case Involving Auto-Hold
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2015/0331.cfm
*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AP wrote: "I will reveal what may be the only auto hold machines in Las Vegas. At the venerable el Cortez there exists 6 machines that are manufactured by U1 gaming"
I thought I saw some of these at various Dotty's. They can be interesting because they give the return for the bonusing slots. They call it fair returns or something like that. They are fun machines to play, quite a bit different and frankly better than IGT and Bally's machines. During certain types of promotions they can be the loosest slots as well.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Take a liook at the bizarre keno games on the U1's. Then ask yourself if the Wizard of Odd's keno calculator will analyze the games for you. Not! Add some banking and/or progressive features to these games and you have the type of keno games I exploit. II have to do all the math myself.
The Wizard's keno calculator is outdated for modern keno games. The first thing I would do with it is make so you can analyze with less or more than 20 draws. Some of the games I've analyzed I have to know the frequencies for 19 draws. And some of the games I've analyzed I have to know the frequencies for up to 20 extra draws. I have to do all this math myself. Though its easy enough to write the equations its very cumbersome.
Bob Dancer's position in his article is that machines with auto-hold should not have to provide the best strategy unless they are claiming that auto-hold provides the best strategy.
I have the opposite opinion. The problem is that the average person would assume that the auto-hold is providing them with the optimal strategy. I would make that assumption myself. The only difference between me and someone who wasn't knowledgeable would be that I would verify that auto-hold was using optimal strategy before relying on it to play faster. It's true that anyone with any knowledge of video poker would stay away from those machines. But I don't think that changes the fact that auto-hold by default should provide the optimal strategy.
I think Oregon's only defense would be to say that the people playing weren't smart enough to use optimal strategy anyway, and if they used their own strategy instead of auto-hold they wouldn't have done much better than what auto-hold told them to do, so maybe the damages would be reduced. On the other hand, if they were advertising a 90% return and people using auto-hold only got 87%, they can claim that they were misled and wouldn't have played if they knew the returns were lower than claimed. Also, by relying on auto-hold to provide the best strategy, they played faster and lost more money.
I think that the auto-hold feature should provide optimal strategy by default, and if it doesn't, it should have to be clearly disclosed on the machine. It's bad enough that many states ban casinos and then use their monopoly on gambling to provide games with poor payouts, but to mislead gamblers on top of that is especially obnoxious.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
People's assumptions are irrelevant, unless prompted by specific warranties/promises made by the casino. I doubt those were present in this situation.
---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <alan3262@...> wrote :
Bob Dancer's position in his article is that machines with auto-hold should not have to provide the best strategy unless they are claiming that auto-hold provides the best strategy.
I have the opposite opinion. The problem is that the average person would assume that the auto-hold is providing them with the optimal strategy.]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I"m going to have to chack for something when I'm out today. I seem to recall some language in one joker game where it says the autohold holds the cards that gives you the best chance to make a paying hand. Of coursr that would not be optimal strategy.
In one joker game I play the autohold steers you away from natural and wild royals and natural and wild straight flushes.
