vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's LVA - 17 NOV 2015

#1

I have one problem with this column. Bob Dancer suggesting that this player should make up an excuse and lie as to why he didn't play when it was at 2X. Lying is so old fashioned and is a sin. Here is how the problem should have been handled. The player should have stated how much action he had given. He should have said with that amount of action he should own the casino and at least be given RFB. He then should state that next time he will comply and play the in between hours. He was not aware of that requirement before as nothing was told to him. He's sorry. All this is the truth (I assume).

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#2

saysitsme wrote: "He was not aware of that requirement before as nothing was told to him. He's sorry. All this is the truth (I assume)."

I use that line a lot, because a lot of times casinos have hidden rules, like you have to play a certain amount of time ("time on machine") or visit the casino a certain number of days or you have to play at least once each quarter or you have to bet at least one penny of your own money when using freeplay, or you have to use the kiosk first or use the kiosk last, or both, or not at all, or you can play on 9x days but not on 10x days, or you can only get three royals max per month, or you can only play in the middle of the night or you can't play in the middle of the night, and so on and so on ...

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#3

nordo wrote: Here is how the problem should have been handled. The player should have stated how much action he had given. He should have said with that amount of action he should own the casino and at least be given RFB.

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Ah! So your theory is that you should go in with a sense of entitlement and demand they give you something even after they've already told you that your action is not what they're looking for.

If that works for you, congratulations. I don't believe that would work for most people.

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#4

You have to keep in mind also the division of labor found in casinos. Marketing may be very busy trying to attract more customers while the slot manager is actively trying to prevent customers from playing, particularly high denomination machines, since he is incentivized to reduce payouts, not increase the customer base (which is marketing's job). Casino marketing is almost always in conflict with slot floor management, and vice versa.

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#5

I imagine that Marketing has driven many a slot operations manager batcrazy with some of the promotions they come up with.

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#6

I just got around to listening to the Nov 17 Gambling with an Edge, which is most excellent by the way.

The debate comes down to "change the games" versus "change the players".

The problem with "change the players" is that players figure ways around whatever the selection mechanisms are and the problem with "change the games" is that they are already too tight and making them tighter just requires more promotions to get players to play them, at some point customers figure out it's better just to take the promotions and play as little as possible, in other words, penny machines, minimum bet, played as slowly as possible.

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#7

noti wrote: You have to keep in mind also the division of labor found in casinos. Marketing may be very busy trying to attract more customers while the slot manager is actively trying to prevent customers from playing, particularly high denomination machines, since he is incentivized to reduce payouts, not increase the customer base (which is marketing's job). Casino marketing is almost always in conflict with slot floor management, and vice versa.

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I absolutely agree that marketing and slots are often at odds with each other. In some casinos they are in the same room when upcoming promotions are discussed --- but at many casinos this is not the case.

I disagree that the slot manager is trying to prevent customers playing. Most get their bonuses on gross win --- which is coin-in minus coin-out. They WANT players. They NEED players. They just don't want winning players. Different casinos have different formulas as to whether "double points" and "free meal comps" come out of the slot budget or the marketing budget

Many casinos have very elaborate high limit slot areas --- where they take care of players very well. these areas surely aren't built over the kicking and screaming of slot directors

Bob

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#8

Bob wrote: "I disagree that the slot manager is trying to prevent customers playing. Most get their bonuses on gross win --- which is coin-in minus coin-out. They WANT players. They NEED players. They just don't want winning players"

I disagree. They need losing and winning players. A casino is made of losing and winning players. A casino with losers only is just a tourist trap and players soon learn to go elsewhere for entertainment. Gamblers know that they can't expect to always walk a winner, but they expect to see that at least somebody has walked a winner, that is interpreted as meaning they could walk a winner. Gamblers are incentivized by perceiving that they could be a winner. Everyone knows the lottery has bad odds, but everyone also knows that at least one person wins. Even street hustlers know that you have to let some customers win sometimes, to attract marks. A slot manager, if they are getting rewarded for gross win, should optimize the gross win and ignore individual details. This is how casinos worked before tracking cards, and they worked quite well, building Reno, Vegas, and A/C. Tracking cards enable casinos to concentrate on individual results, which is a mistake. That someone won last month is almost suredly statistical noise. That someone won last year also incorporates a lot of statistical noise, given most players denial of Nzero. And just because someone did beat you by skill over the past year or several years doesn't mean they will continue to play a winning game if you change up the games on them. The solution for a slot manager who is rewarded for gross win is to optimize the gross win and to leave the individual player analysis to marketing. Individual player analysis is a black art, for every time they get it right, there are many times they get it wrong. Fine for marketing, not so great for day to day operations. Also individual player analysis just introduces another metagame, where players try to game or defeat player tracking with disguises and so forth.

Examples of bad operations:

Kicking out everyone who plays or even sits at a progressive.

Kicking out someone for hitting a progressive.

Kicking out new players who show up for a promotion. A general promotion is intended to attract new players, if you just want to reward your existing players you just give them individual cash or freeplay not available to new players.

Kicking out anyone who hits a royal or handpay.

Kicking out locals.

Kicking out tourists.

Kicking out or favoring specific ethnic or age groups.

Kicking out anyone who ever plays video poker.

Removing higher denomination machines or removing the "high limit" area because someone could or did hit a big jackpot.

Kicking out someone who goes on a "lucky roll", hitting more than the usual amount of quads for example.

Kicking out someone because another gambler said they were an "advantage gambler" or "pro". Is there any possibility a gamber would lie to improve their own odds? If you know a team manager and you ask them to remove one of their players to open up a seat, is there any possibility they would finger a player that actually isn't on their team? Just to improve their own odds? Is it possible that nice little old lady who just wants a seat is actually one of the team players? Sure she comes in everyday to play penny slots and bingo, but maybe she's also moonlighting for the team when situations arise?

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