vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013

#1

OK we've heard from all sides now, so why don't we just wait and see what happens. Maybe these anonymous gamblers with "pending lawsuits" who supposedly were told out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever: "too bad fellas....you lost, you played 100% by the rules, but it's Revel's decision not to give you the rebate" will eventually battle this out in public so we can all see what's going on.

···

----- Reply message -----
From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
Put your money where your mouth is. I know you are wrong, lets make a bet. We can escrow the money to a trusted source sonce you dont know me.I know several of the legitimate players that were removed, and they aren't talking to the press because of developing lawsuits.

Also, I know it's a rumor, but many people are saying you are consulting for the revel on this promo. Can you go on the record and officially deny this?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Because that's not what happened. People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

OK we've heard from all sides now, so why don't we just wait and see what happens. Maybe these anonymous gamblers with "pending lawsuits" who supposedly were told out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever: "too bad fellas....you lost, you played 100% by the rules, but it's Revel's decision not to give you the rebate" will eventually battle this out in public so we can all see what's going on.

----- Reply message -----
From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
Put your money where your mouth is. I know you are wrong, lets make a bet. We can escrow the money to a trusted source sonce you dont know me.I know several of the legitimate players that were removed, and they aren't talking to the press because of developing lawsuits.

Also, I know it's a rumor, but many people are saying you are consulting for the revel on this promo. Can you go on the record and officially deny this?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I've got no dog in this "fight", vpplayer88, so I'm willing to accept your claim that some players were innocently excluded from the Revel promo, until such time as hard data to the contrary comes to light.

But, frankly, what I will note is that of what I've read, it's clear to me that at least some players were legitimately bumped, having been observed engaging in the Ult-X "vulnerability" to hide wins.

As to others who may have been inappropriately netted, if these exist on any number, I'm stunned by their discretion in not speaking out of turn. In past circumstances, even where a player intends to seek a legal remedy, they can be usually counted on to be sufficiently forthcoming with general details of their indignation, even while observing appropriate discretion, such that one readily gets that someone was wronged. in this case, I haven't seen zip except out of the one player who came forth with vague details of his and his buddy's circumstances that, with modest insight, strongly smacks of the Ult-X scam in operation.

As I said, I'm a largely disinterested party. I write merely to suggest why someone who's perused the public discussion might have doubts that "innocents" are involved.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

Because that's not what happened. People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@..." <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
>
> OK we've heard from all sides now, so why don't we just wait and see what happens. Maybe these anonymous gamblers with "pending lawsuits" who supposedly were told out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever: "too bad fellas....you lost, you played 100% by the rules, but it's Revel's decision not to give you the rebate" will eventually battle this out in public so we can all see what's going on.
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@>
> To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
> Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
> Put your money where your mouth is. I know you are wrong, lets make a bet. We can escrow the money to a trusted source sonce you dont know me.I know several of the legitimate players that were removed, and they aren't talking to the press because of developing lawsuits.
>
>
>
> Also, I know it's a rumor, but many people are saying you are consulting for the revel on this promo. Can you go on the record and officially deny this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@...> wrote:

People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.

It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

#5

Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?

I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.

There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.

I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.

Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.

On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?

Bob

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#6

But you just wrote an article taking someone in the same positions word for a strategy going on that I don't think was actually going on. That means you will put information out there that supports the casino but not symmetric information on the other side which supports players. It's simply not consistent. I know you left plausible deniability in the article but you could have equally well written an article with both sides with plenty of plausible deniability for every angle.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?

I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.

There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.

I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.

Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.

On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?

Bob

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#7

No, I'm not a member of WoV, Bob. The first time I was over there was a few days back when someone posted to you that the Revel thread at WoV had players complaining of being disqualified. As for who I can vouch for there I'm just like you. I don't know any of those characters, except....the only one I can say for sure is solid is fivespot, but he's not working the Revel promotion. He suggested that Revel put signs on the Ultimate X's declaring them unavailable for the promotion. I'm still waiting for a report of Revel doing this. If they haven't disqualified the game then that can only mean they are setting a trap for card manipulators, letting them play with no intention of rebating them.

We are all dealing with incomplete information. On WoV, Pokeraddict is the gaming writer for Google News. He's the one who put the story up on uspoker.com. I thought his story was fair. His repeated attempts to contact Revel execs has fallen on deaf ears. Since Revel won't respond, all we have is the players side to read. It is also reported that the NY Times writer who wrote about the Revel promo in June is being asked to do a follow up story.

The Revel fiasco is an entertaining story to watch on these lonely Montana nights. It's either that or I can go to the bar and get smashed. In which case, being all hung over, I won't go out and work tomorrow. So I lose the money I threw over the bar, plus my $250 in expectation for tomorrow.

I'm having fun with the story, Bob. As for all my speculation in the posts, I'm just doing what I've done all my life....dead reckoning. I've dead reckoned right....and I've dead reckoned wrong. If I come up wrong on any of my speculation, then I will stand corrected. Take care.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

Mick wrote: It was reported in the WoV thread early on that in the first couple of days of the promotion players who were hammering the $25 slots and the one $100 slot were being disqualified from the promotion. I suspect these are the people who are going to sue. There is no way to manipulate the card on those slots. And I suspect that these players were the sharpest, biggest bankrolled players in the house, and had enough moxie to stay away from card manipulation.

I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions?

I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that.

There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.

I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. Many players who post here have their own agendas and aren't always responsible in what they say. Some are. Some aren't.

Just like on this site, many of us believe certain posters generally have interesting and informative things to say. Others we believe post things that are generally worthless --- or even worse! My list of such people will be a little different from yours, but there will be a lot of overlap between them.

On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?

Bob

#8

What is even stranger is the complete silence of the once supposedly fearsome state gambling agencies. That, along with the lack of curiosity on the part of the South Jersey news media, speaks louder than even the player-critics.

···

On 7/10/2013 10:06 PM, Mickey wrote:

We are all dealing with incomplete information. On WoV, Pokeraddict is the gaming writer for Google News. He's the one who put the story up on uspoker.com. I thought his story was fair. His repeated attempts to contact Revel execs has fallen on deaf ears. Since Revel won't respond, all we have is the players side to read.

#9

If you have a case, it's usually a big mistake to start yakking to the public. Casinos will usually pay off much more if you agree to a gag order. The public never hears about the big juicy settlements. "Going to the press" is a valuable threat, but once executed, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. The value is in the threat, not the execution.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

I've got no dog in this "fight", vpplayer88, so I'm willing to accept your claim that some players were innocently excluded from the Revel promo, until such time as hard data to the contrary comes to light.

But, frankly, what I will note is that of what I've read, it's clear to me that at least some players were legitimately bumped, having been observed engaging in the Ult-X "vulnerability" to hide wins.

As to others who may have been inappropriately netted, if these exist on any number, I'm stunned by their discretion in not speaking out of turn. In past circumstances, even where a player intends to seek a legal remedy, they can be usually counted on to be sufficiently forthcoming with general details of their indignation, even while observing appropriate discretion, such that one readily gets that someone was wronged. in this case, I haven't seen zip except out of the one player who came forth with vague details of his and his buddy's circumstances that, with modest insight, strongly smacks of the Ult-X scam in operation.

As I said, I'm a largely disinterested party. I write merely to suggest why someone who's perused the public discussion might have doubts that "innocents" are involved.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@> wrote:
>
>
>
> Because that's not what happened. People playing big slots were banned for playing big slots. No reason was given but all they did is play big. Your characterization is false.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111@" <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> >
> > OK we've heard from all sides now, so why don't we just wait and see what happens. Maybe these anonymous gamblers with "pending lawsuits" who supposedly were told out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever: "too bad fellas....you lost, you played 100% by the rules, but it's Revel's decision not to give you the rebate" will eventually battle this out in public so we can all see what's going on.
> >
> > ----- Reply message -----
> > From: "vpplayer88" <vpplayer88@>
> > To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 9 JUL 2013
> > Date: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30 pm
> > Put your money where your mouth is. I know you are wrong, lets make a bet. We can escrow the money to a trusted source sonce you dont know me.I know several of the legitimate players that were removed, and they aren't talking to the press because of developing lawsuits.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, I know it's a rumor, but many people are saying you are consulting for the revel on this promo. Can you go on the record and officially deny this?
> >
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#10

I agree with your characterization about what was reported on the WoV site. Are you willing to accept at face value that what was reported was actually true and with no material omissions? I'm not. It would make no sense to me for the casino to do that. There are very likely some key parts of the story that haven't been posted yet. You could be right and some court might decide that how the Revel has behaved is improper. And it also could be right that the reason lawsuits like that haven't been filed yet is because the facts that have been reported in the player press aren't completely accurate.

I really don't know exactly what happened. But I'm not inclined to believe everything at face value that is reported on sites such as WoV or vpFREE. On the WoV site, I haven't participated enough there to know who is believable and who is not. Have you?

Bob

Well, Bob, those same disgruntled players on WoV reported, several days ago, before last nights GWAE, that a high profile AP was consulting with Revel. Michael Shackelford denied he was involved and reasserted his opinion that Revel management was incompetent. That left my dead reckoning down to one AP. So you tell me, Bob. Should I take their story about the AP consultant at face value?

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote: