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Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 12 FEB 2013

There's a whole bunch of stuff you have to induce about drawings, like: are you on the excluded list?, will they only call a name once and then exclude any additional draws of the same name, will they only call those who have some play today, will they only call those who have a card in a machine, will they only call those who haven't played yet today, will they only call those who have lost a lot today, will they only call those who tip, is the drawing completely fixed, have people been duplicating or making their own tickets, are there other secret ways to get tickets, if you tip big at a table game will they give you a bunch of tickets, will they only pull folded tickets or non-folded tickets, is the drum stuffed so much that the tickets aren't getting shuffled, did they dump out any tickets that got put in early and what is the definition of "early", did they do some "culling" of the drum before the drawing, and so on. Good luck with that one. A rough rule of thumb: as the value of the prize increases, the chances of a completely random drawing decrease. A big prize represents a huge incentive to cheat. Google "Venetian rigged drawing" for some interesting stories about drawings.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpplayer88" wrote:

I think there are plenty of examples of inductive logic being very useful for gambling. There are many things you can't know a priori. For example, the number of entries in a drawing is very important for estimating your equity. There is no way to do this except with inductive logic. Another example is estimating your edge in tournaments of skill like poker, blackjack or craps. You can't estimate these without inductive logic because the true strategies of your opponents are unknown given that you only observe a small subset of their potential actions.

Anyway, the point is that you should understand which kind of logic is appropriate for each situation. Video poker is a full information game so you should use deductive logic if you played perfectly, but you need to use inductive logic to estimate your error frequency and adjust your ev accordingly.

If you play must hit by slots, the true return is not known and play data is relevant for figuring out the quality of a play. The key here is understanding something about how much events should move your prior about machine returns.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vpFREE Administrator wrote:
>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 12 FEB 2013
>
> "Induction versus Deduction"
>
> http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/0212.cfm
>
>
> *************************************************
> This link is posted for informational purposes
> and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
> of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
> discussion of the article must be done in
> accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
> *************************************************
>

I was at a 2 day drawing event , and a person with a fairly unusual name got called twice. the next day, that same person got called twice and was actually boo'd the second time as rumblings of "fix" were in the air !
Those are good questions below, and I'd say that all the boothlings combined would only know 5% of those answers - so you'd really have to scout it yourself and get friendly with the slot director to answer over an extended time period, assuming that they always do the drawings the exact same way. For me, $10 in free play is usually a lot better than some time-wasting-impossible to win drawing.
best...Tom

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----- Original Message ----- From: "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 1:40 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 12 FEB 2013

There's a whole bunch of stuff you have to induce about drawings, like: are you on the excluded list?, will they only call a name once and then exclude any additional draws of the same name, will they only call those who have some play today, will they only call those who have a card in a machine, will they only call those who haven't played yet today, will they only call those who have lost a lot today, will they only call those who tip, is the drawing completely fixed, have people been duplicating or making their own tickets, are there other secret ways to get tickets, if you tip big at a table game will they give you a bunch of tickets, will they only pull folded tickets or non-folded tickets, is the drum stuffed so much that the tickets aren't getting shuffled, did they dump out any tickets that got put in early and what is the definition of "early", did they do some "culling" of the drum before the drawing, and so on. Good luck with that one. A rough rule of thumb: as the value of the prize increases, the chances of a completely random drawing decrease. A big prize represents a huge incentive to cheat. Google "Venetian rigged drawing" for some interesting stories about drawings.

When I was on the Spin Poker Joker play in Ely, Nevada there was a cheating scandal in the drawings. There were two drawings per week. Ten winners a night and you could only win once. When your name was called you went up to the booth and picked up your envolope of money-then you were required to reach into the drum and pull a ticket for the next winner.

There was another well known pro who used to write for video poker times on the play. He's the one that busted out the cheaters. I never noticed the pattern of name calling but he did. The cheat went something like this. I'll call the cheaters Larry, Curly and Moe. Whichever got his name called first the other two names would be called behind him.

If Larry's name was called then the next name called would be Curly or Moe. If it was Curly then Moe would be called behind him.

They were palming tickets and reaching down into the drum and coming up with the palmed ticket.

Doug picked up on the pattern and told the casino manager who put an end to the cheater's careers at the Hotel Nevada.

Caesars LV had a drawing. Tickets based on amount of gambling.
Had an awesome dinner where tickets were drawn. Big entrance by Cleopatra and her entourage.

Think it was invitational only. They had NSUD at $1 and above.

Cleopatra picked out the tickets. She would look in the barrel for the tickets that were orgami'd into an airplane. Kind of looked like the space shuttle. Too obvious. Wife was so pissed.

I told her to keep a low profile as she did well on the VP.
It was ~10 years ago. Didn't go to anymore drawings as that's about when they shut us off.

Seen other blantant cheating. It would be a good thread. When you calculate the E.V. of a drawing/tournament have to take that into account. Is that deduction or induction or reduction?

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

When I was on the Spin Poker Joker play in Ely, Nevada there was a cheating scandal in the drawings. There were two drawings per week. Ten winners a night and you could only win once. When your name was called you went up to the booth and picked up your envolope of money-then you were required to reach into the drum and pull a ticket for the next winner.

There was another well known pro who used to write for video poker times on the play. He's the one that busted out the cheaters. I never noticed the pattern of name calling but he did. The cheat went something like this. I'll call the cheaters Larry, Curly and Moe. Whichever got his name called first the other two names would be called behind him.

If Larry's name was called then the next name called would be Curly or Moe. If it was Curly then Moe would be called behind him.

They were palming tickets and reaching down into the drum and coming up with the palmed ticket.

Doug picked up on the pattern and told the casino manager who put an end to the cheater's careers at the Hotel Nevada.

burn in hell cheaters. i would rather lose playing honestly than win by cheating. if there is a hell my heaven would be to tourtue all the
cheaters and thieves and con artists for all eternity.

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-----Original Message-----
From: Dave <haaljo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 10:22 am
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 12 FEB 2013

Caesars LV had a drawing. Tickets based on amount of gambling.
Had an awesome dinner where tickets were drawn. Big entrance by Cleopatra and her entourage.

Think it was invitational only. They had NSUD at $1 and above.

Cleopatra picked out the tickets. She would look in the barrel for the tickets that were orgami'd into an airplane. Kind of looked like the space shuttle. Too obvious. Wife was so pissed.

I told her to keep a low profile as she did well on the VP.
It was ~10 years ago. Didn't go to anymore drawings as that's about when they shut us off.

Seen other blantant cheating. It would be a good thread. When you calculate the E.V. of a drawing/tournament have to take that into account. Is that deduction or induction or reduction?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" wrote:

When I was on the Spin Poker Joker play in Ely, Nevada there was a cheating scandal in the drawings. There were two drawings per week. Ten winners a night and you could only win once. When your name was called you went up to the booth and picked up your envolope of money-then you were required to reach into the drum and pull a ticket for the next winner.

There was another well known pro who used to write for video poker times on the play. He's the one that busted out the cheaters. I never noticed the pattern of name calling but he did. The cheat went something like this. I'll call the cheaters Larry, Curly and Moe. Whichever got his name called first the other two names would be called behind him.

If Larry's name was called then the next name called would be Curly or Moe. If it was Curly then Moe would be called behind him.

They were palming tickets and reaching down into the drum and coming up with the palmed ticket.

Doug picked up on the pattern and told the casino manager who put an end to the cheater's careers at the Hotel Nevada.

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