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Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

"Fezzik Has a Losing Year"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm</a>

···

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

One difference that Bob doesn't mention (and I'm not entirely disagreeing with his article) is that betting on sports, as opposed to VP, is that sports betting, particularly NFL betting is a constantly mutating animal. Yes, I know that new games, and paytables and comp rates change for VP, but they are mathematically quantifiable into a predetermined +/- %. But there are a number of factors that cannot be predetermined in NFL betting that may have changed without anyone's knowledge.

In the 1970's there were a number of specific situations that would come up that had very predictable winning percentages. Using the comparatively primitive computers of the day, the patterns became clearly evident by data mining through historic databases. You would not be guaranteed a win every time, but the winning percentage of these plays could approach or even exceed 80%. One such example, as I recall, was non-divisional games where the spread on the home team was P'em to -1 1/2. Of course, there weren't very many games that fit into this limited set of characteristics, probably fewer than 8-10 a year. But there were many different angles that could be played, some of which used information that was not available to the average bettor, or most probably to bookies. So on any given Sunday, there were almost always one or more plays that fit into one of the angles. And if you were playing with an 80% or better edge, one could make quite a nice living.

As computers became more widespread, more people became aware of the patterns, including those setting the lines. Or as one bookie once told me, "I like your play, even though you win, because it offsets the way the rest of the bettors are going, and I don't have to lay so much off." As the knowledge of the angles spread, the winning percentages went down, because the lines were adjusted to reflect increased public betting on the angle plays. Where a team might have been a 1 point favorite, it was now 3 or 3 1/2 or 4. Fairly subtle difference, but enough to take away the edge from the play.

So my point is, where Bob has every reason to expect that he will have a winning year next year because he is playing against definable mathematical certainties , Fezzik has been handicapping using certain criteria that may have been changed on him. Unless he adapts to the "new normal" and revises his methodology, there is probably a very good chance that he will have another losing season next year as well. That being said, since he has been successful for a long time, it speaks well of his ability to adapt, and I would expect that he could, and would, do so.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

________________________________
From: vpFREE Administrator <vpfreeadmin@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

"Fezzik Has a Losing Year"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2012/0110.cfm</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I"ve had a good year at sports betting, having won about 60% of my bets. But the VIG kills you, and I only eeeked out a modest profit. I would have been better off playing $100 9/5 Jacks or better. I bet sports because its fun, as far as an edge ...total nonsense. Perhaps elite pro's can make money by fixing events, insider information , and scouts at various betting parlors and bookies taking odds adjustments which are favorable. Most average Joes find themselves on the short end of the stick, despite winning more bets than lost because of the high VIG. Sports betting is one of the largest money makers for the casinos, and will stay that way for many more years to come.
just my 2 cents...Tom
PS - take the GIANTS and under !!

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "GURU PERF" <guruperf@att.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

One difference that Bob doesn't mention (and I'm not entirely disagreeing with his article) is that betting on sports, as opposed to VP, is that sports betting, particularly NFL betting is a constantly mutating animal. Yes, I know that new games, and paytables and comp rates change for VP, but they are mathematically quantifiable into a predetermined +/- %. But there are a number of factors that cannot be predetermined in NFL betting that may have changed without anyone's knowledge.

In the 1970's there were a number of specific situations that would come up that had very predictable winning percentages. Using the comparatively primitive computers of the day, the patterns became clearly evident by data mining through historic databases. You would not be guaranteed a win every time, but the winning percentage of these plays could approach or even exceed 80%. One such example, as I recall, was non-divisional games where the spread on the home team was P'em to -1 1/2. Of course, there weren't very many games that fit into this limited set of characteristics, probably fewer than 8-10 a year. But there were many different angles that could be played, some of which used information that was not available to the average bettor, or most probably to bookies. So on any given Sunday, there were almost always one or more plays that fit into one of the angles. And if you were playing with an 80% or better edge, one could make quite a nice living.

As computers became more widespread, more people became aware of the patterns, including those setting the lines. Or as one bookie once told me, "I like your play, even though you win, because it offsets the way the rest of the bettors are going, and I don't have to lay so much off." As the knowledge of the angles spread, the winning percentages went down, because the lines were adjusted to reflect increased public betting on the angle plays. Where a team might have been a 1 point favorite, it was now 3 or 3 1/2 or 4. Fairly subtle difference, but enough to take away the edge from the play.

So my point is, where Bob has every reason to expect that he will have a winning year next year because he is playing against definable mathematical certainties , Fezzik has been handicapping using certain criteria that may have been changed on him. Unless he adapts to the "new normal" and revises his methodology, there is probably a very good chance that he will have another losing season next year as well. That being said, since he has been successful for a long time, it speaks well of his ability to adapt, and I would expect that he could, and would, do so.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

Bob wrote:
Winning at a 54% rate means that you have an 8% edge, or in the way the number is expressed in video poker circles, you're playing a 108% game.

···

================
To break even in sports betting, you have to win 11 bets for every 10 bets you lose, so a win percentage of 52.4% (11/21) means you break even. Wouldn't winning at a 54% rate give you a 2(54% - 52.4%) = 3.2% edge instead of an 8% edge?

I was confused by this too. You need to win 55% to breakeven since the vig is 11 to make 10. I'm not a math major in case this is wrong. fyi.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: jeff-cole@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 05:58:03 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

      Bob wrote:

Winning at a 54% rate means that you have an 8% edge, or in the way the number is expressed in video poker circles, you're playing a 108% game.

================

To break even in sports betting, you have to win 11 bets for every 10 bets you lose, so a win percentage of 52.4% (11/21) means you break even. Wouldn't winning at a 54% rate give you a 2(54% - 52.4%) = 3.2% edge instead of an 8% edge?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's not quite the way to look at the bet. Imagine the casino has a game of flipping coins. But the players play against each other. So two players post their $11 to win $10 bets, one takes heads, the other takes tails. The casino now has $22 in it's possesion. The player that wins the toss receives back the $11 that he bet plus the $10 that he won. The casino took in $22 but paid back $21. 21 divided by 22 equals 95.45454%. The casino is holding a 4.54545% edge on the total action. I'm ignorant on the subject of sports betting so I know this little example is not even close to the
end of the story....but it is the start. It's a fundamental of sports betting.

If you buy 1000 tickets laying $11 to win $10, your total action will be $11,000 If you cash 524 (52.4%)of the tickets, which you will cash at $21 apiece, your return will be $11,004. A whopping $4 profit.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, James Thompson <jamesgthompson@...> wrote:

I was confused by this too. You need to win 55% to breakeven since >the vig is 11 to make 10. I'm not a math major in case this is >wrong. fyi.

Sportsbook is no where near a big money maker for casinos both in aggregate win and % of wagers held - you can get this from the state gaming numbers.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

I"ve had a good year at sports betting, having won about 60% of my bets. But
the VIG kills you, and I only eeeked out a modest profit. I would have been
better off playing $100 9/5 Jacks or better. I bet sports because its fun,
as far as an edge ...total nonsense. Perhaps elite pro's can make money by
fixing events, insider information , and scouts at various betting parlors
and bookies taking odds adjustments which are favorable. Most average Joes
find themselves on the short end of the stick, despite winning more bets
than lost because of the high VIG. Sports betting is one of the largest
money makers for the casinos, and will stay that way for many more years to
come.
just my 2 cents...Tom
PS - take the GIANTS and under !!

----- Original Message -----
From: "GURU PERF" <guruperf@...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 10 JAN 2012

One difference that Bob doesn't mention (and I'm not entirely disagreeing
with his article) is that betting on sports, as opposed to VP, is that
sports betting, particularly NFL betting is a constantly mutating animal.
Yes, I know that new games, and paytables and comp rates change for VP, but
they are mathematically quantifiable into a predetermined +/- %. But there
are a number of factors that cannot be predetermined in NFL betting that may
have changed without anyone's knowledge.

In the 1970's there were a number of specific situations that would come up
that had very predictable winning percentages. Using the comparatively
primitive computers of the day, the patterns became clearly evident by data
mining through historic databases. You would not be guaranteed a win every
time, but the winning percentage of these plays could approach or even
exceed 80%. One such example, as I recall, was non-divisional games where
the spread on the home team was P'em to -1 1/2. Of course, there weren't
very many games that fit into this limited set of characteristics, probably
fewer than 8-10 a year. But there were many different angles that could be
played, some of which used information that was not available to the average
bettor, or most probably to bookies. So on any given Sunday, there were
almost always one or more plays that fit into one of the angles. And if you
were playing with an 80% or better edge, one could make quite a nice living.

As computers became more widespread, more people became aware of the
patterns, including those setting the lines. Or as one bookie once told me,
"I like your play, even though you win, because it offsets the way the rest
of the bettors are going, and I don't have to lay so much off." As the
knowledge of the angles spread, the winning percentages went down, because
the lines were adjusted to reflect increased public betting on the angle
plays. Where a team might have been a 1 point favorite, it was now 3 or 3
1/2 or 4. Fairly subtle difference, but enough to take away the edge from
the play.

So my point is, where Bob has every reason to expect that he will have a
winning year next year because he is playing against definable mathematical
certainties , Fezzik has been handicapping using certain criteria that may
have been changed on him. Unless he adapts to the "new normal" and revises
his methodology, there is probably a very good chance that he will have
another losing season next year as well. That being said, since he has been
successful for a long time, it speaks well of his ability to adapt, and I
would expect that he could, and would, do so.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you
can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate
preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

Bob Dancer wrote:

Winning at a 54% rate means that you have an 8% edge, or in the way the number is expressed in video poker circles, you're playing a 108% game.

jeffcole2003oct wrote:

To break even in sports betting, you have to win 11 bets for every 10 bets you lose, so a win percentage of 52.4% (11/21) means you break even. Wouldn't winning at a 54% rate give you a 2(54% - 52.4%) = 3.2% edge instead of an 8% edge?

Bob is referring to the fact that if you are winning 54% of your bets your opponent is only winning 46% rate against you. That's an 8% difference. Of course, the juice is not calculated in.