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Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 4 AUG 2009

#21

Part 3," in which Michael says that the higher up he went in the "legitimate" world, the more corrupt it got.

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--In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <madameguyon@...>wrote:

One of my favorite lines in any movie is in "The Godfather,

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Though I have probably lived more years than you have, affording
me ample time to be around "corrupt" individuals in my business
as well as in my social life, I have yet to believe in the jaded
view of humanity to which you seem to subscribe.

This experience includes co-owning and managing a successful business, with my husband, in a very competive industry, since
1971.

Certainly, there are a few rotten eggs among the thousands of good ones to be found in every henhouse. I don't believe that this is in
any way indicative of the honesty or morality of most of mankind.

Compete with those "honest,trustworthy and honorable players" at their most valuable plays and see how long you regard them as "dear friends."

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Since, as I have often said, I am a .25c to $1.00 Rec player, it is
highly unlikely that I would ever "compete with any pros for their
most valuable plays". For that very reason, I have absolutely
nothing to offer my pro friends in return for their many kindnesses
to me.

When I recall a very helpful pro with whom I engaged in a much too short, private email correspondence, the late Eliott Shapiro immediately comes to mind.

After I had offered him some advice about a personal situation in which he was involved, similiar to one that I had experienced, he responded by providing me with some great information on progressives
as well as the location of a good play that was not common knowledge.
He was a skilled VP pro, and also a real gentleman.

I have no intention of naming my current pro friends, as I do not
have permission to do so. But, since I have met them personally,
most on several occasions, I can state without equivocation, that
in our personal dealings, they have been extremely honest, courteous
and helpful to me in every way. I have learned a great deal from
them, and I am most grateful.

I know that these talented players do not need my help in defending
their good names, but I could not, in good conscience, not try to refute, what was, in my opinion, a generally disrespectful view of
their characters.

~Babe~

Babe wrote: WOW! The miscreants that you describe bear not the SLIGHTEST resemblance to the VP pros whom I consider to be dear friends!

Tom Robertson wrote:....Breaking "unwritten rules," even those against blatantly stealing, financially and intellectually, from each other and physically attacking each other, has no consequences in that anarchic business, maybe due to the fact that it's based on the generally unattractive trait of taking advantage of others.

#22

I'll give you a hint, the bar is on the east side of town.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "steve" <radek2166@...> wrote:

"Surprise, Mr. Dancers own financial agenda takes precedence. I wonder why
Mr.Dancer doesnt give juicy clues as to the whereabouts of that bar/pub w/ the
5$ full pay Double Bonus Dueces Wild?"

Are we slightly bitter? How bout you go to every bar in town and find it yourself. Just a thought.

#23

He doesn't owe me a living. Not in the least...and if you want the truth, if it wasn't Bob or Jean, it would be someone else.

He doesn't owe me a living? Boy, you really think he's God, don't you?

The real beef with Bob is twofold...one is that he wants to play both sides of the street, which is something you really can't do. You take the house side or the player side, and that's it. You don't play and out other players as a so-called "consultant". See, I never understood some of the things Bob does. He outed a very good play at Caesars several years ago, when he just should have played it like everyone else did. Most of the players he's outed would never be competition to him. He denies he's outed players, among other things that look suspicious. Let's just say he does lots of things which negatively impact his karma.

Now as for all these references to insects...is that the best you can do?

While I find it amusing you would call me a parasite (actually, most people think what I do is honorable), you don't even know enough about this deal to make that judgment. Frankly, it's just a transaction to me, and if the transaction makes sense, I play. How difficult is that?

Ok, I've wasted enough time on this explaining the obvious, again.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

paladingamingllc - can you explain why BD owes you a living. Even if he is a parasite, so are you - it is not like you are educating children, discovering new medicnes or not doing anything useful for society - you are both bottom feeders sucking the blood out of businesses that employ people.

At least BD has educated a lot of players, so there are many more players who are losing less money than otherwise because of him, than the sparse number of locusts like you, so all in all he is good thing for most players.

#24

I am not even saying he has never outed anyone - I have heard this from a lot of people that he has

By the way, you can play the do and don't if they let you, so if you are playing for comps and they are dumb enough to give you a full rating for it, what the hell?

What I am saying that let's assume the worst of the guy and I won't used insect names anymore, let's say you are both capitalists as you said it is only a transaction. Bob is in business to make money for Bob, there might be some of it like casino consulting that hurts the player, but there is much more, like his books, articles and software than helps the player - several years ago a top Strip slot person said to me " Dancer killed us, he taught the players how to play" - notice that - not Dancer helped us in any way, but "he killed us".

The situation at Caesars if we are talking about the same one - he outed in an article, not as a consultant. Did you ever think he just made a mistake and blabbed too much? That is what not some brilliant or even greedy move, just a mistake? He did the same thing to himself at Green Valley when he recounted how he won Jumbo Jackpot on Shirley's card and now he can't play on Shirley's card anymore - no more double dipping of mailers. He acknowledged this when he wrote the sequel, "Hoisted on my own Petard" or something like that.

All I am saying there are pros more destructive to the health of other pros than him - we just don't know their names or use their names, because they are not writing columns for the press.

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-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@> wrote:
>
> paladingamingllc - can you explain why BD owes you a living. Even if he is a parasite, so are you - it is not like you are educating children, discovering new medicnes or not doing anything useful for society - you are both bottom feeders sucking the blood out of businesses that employ people.
>
> At least BD has educated a lot of players, so there are many more players who are losing less money than otherwise because of him, than the sparse number of locusts like you, so all in all he is good thing for most players.
>

He doesn't owe me a living. Not in the least...and if you want the truth, if it wasn't Bob or Jean, it would be someone else.

He doesn't owe me a living? Boy, you really think he's God, don't you?

The real beef with Bob is twofold...one is that he wants to play both sides of the street, which is something you really can't do. You take the house side or the player side, and that's it. You don't play and out other players as a so-called "consultant". See, I never understood some of the things Bob does. He outed a very good play at Caesars several years ago, when he just should have played it like everyone else did. Most of the players he's outed would never be competition to him. He denies he's outed players, among other things that look suspicious. Let's just say he does lots of things which negatively impact his karma.

Now as for all these references to insects...is that the best you can do?

While I find it amusing you would call me a parasite (actually, most people think what I do is honorable), you don't even know enough about this deal to make that judgment. Frankly, it's just a transaction to me, and if the transaction makes sense, I play. How difficult is that?

Ok, I've wasted enough time on this explaining the obvious, again.

#25

I agree with most of what you say here...you did much better this time.

Advantage play is very much not a zero sum game, is very much not a team sport (unless you have a team).

I would assume Bob is a smart enough operator to know not to publicly ask why Caesars would offer a game with 4% theo...factoring in the player reinvestment, the play would be over 1/2% minimum, and probably over 1% when the smoke cleared.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

I am not even saying he has never outed anyone - I have heard this from a lot of people that he has

#26

I guess I'm naive then. I'm not a 'player' nor do I boast about it. I started studying the game because I was tired of playing endless slots. Yeah, I bought BD's cards and software, read Jean Scott's books, etc., so what. I've studied on the software, I don't gamble that much but when I do I want to make my money last, and since I started last year, the four times I've been to casino, I've broken even, or lost at most $100.

On Saturday I hit my first royal at quarter 9/6 JoB at the Hilton, after playing for half an hour at about $40 of my bankroll in. I put $1000 in my pocket and actually came out ahead with my regular weekend bankroll as well. And I was just playing the most very basic beginner strategy, and I know I made a couple mistakes here or there.

I'm small potatoes, so what. I'm never going to chase down a convenience-store double-whatever bonus bla bla promotion. You remember your first Royal, folks? How it made you feel (besides a bit richer). I am no 'apologist' or 'BD suckup' or whatever. I researched the teaching tools, and Bob Dancer's software and cards made me able to play well and prolong my enjoyment, and at last get a payoff. Well worth the small expense, I'd say, and I'm having a good time.

I also rely heavily upon the database in this list and contribute to it when I can. In that way, actually EVERYONE on this list is just as 'guilty' of contributing to 'everyone else knowing where all the good plays are.' Am I right? I do it too. Um, that's the point of a 'database.'

Maybe I have no right to say this, but personally I think "just shut up and play."

And I agree -- I wouldn't care to reveal a secret hot location I found for something, either. If the information that is shared teaches me something more, fine. Hustle on your own shoe-leather.

Mary Thomson

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

One of the biggest names in the business, he built his bankroll in part playing gas stations, taverns, etc...he kept several notebooks, separated by location, etc. You'd be surprised how many 101% Joker triple plays he'd find.

So, you put that kind of shoeleather into finding the spots, you deserve the rewards you get. I don't understand why Bob would want to out someone else's play, but that's kind of the guy he is...which what I suspect is going on here. Which is also why Bob's fellow pros hate him passionately. There are several unwritten rules about our business, and Bob violates a lot of them.

#27

I am puzzled as to why a pro would rat out another pro's positive play ? Now that the "rat" knows about the play wouldn't it serve him better to play it himself ?

  Larry F.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <madameguyon@> wrote:
>
, but, from my experience, those who will
> "rat" to management about competitors' plays don't care what their
> competitors think of them.

#28

I should have clarified that they're generally ratting out the
competitor, not the play. Before the "information explosion," casinos
fought pros by removing them, not the play, far more than they do.
And when pros discover an attractive situation which will terminate
before there will be room for them, their alternatives, such as
ratting to management, exclude simply playing it.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Tom Robertson <madameguyon@> wrote:
>
, but, from my experience, those who will
> "rat" to management about competitors' plays don't care what their
> competitors think of them.

I am puzzled as to why a pro would rat out another pro's positive play ? Now that the "rat" knows about the play wouldn't it serve him better to play it himself ?

Larry F.