vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 17 AUG 2010

#1

Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 17 AUG 2010

One Coin or Five -- Revisited

http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0817.html

<a href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0817.html">
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0817.html</a>

···

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

#2

In this article, Bob Dancer is comparing betting one coin vs. five coins and
says betting only one coin is better because you will lose less money.
Using dollars as an example, he is comparing betting $1 vs. $5, per hand.

No shit??!! Really, Bob??! Someone will lose less money by betting $1 per
hand vs. $5 per hand??!! How brilliant.

Hey, Bob....how about betting only 1c per hand? You will lose even less
money!

I seriously hope everyone who reads Bob's article takes his advice.

···

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, vpFREE Administrator <vpfreeadmin@cox.net>wrote:

Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 17 AUG 2010

One Coin or Five -- Revisited

http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0817.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Those who play in Nevada solely can scoff but when I'm stuck in a place like "Meet Me At Foxwoods" I will play single-coin nickel Deuces Wild for the free booze since there is nothing playable under $5 a spin-which I refuse to play.
It's a much less grim alternative to banging away on their truly awful (8-5 JOB, 96% DW, etc.) machines at $1.25 a spin.
Last visit I think I lost 2 bucks and sucked down 4 premium type drinks-B& B and Makers Mark.
That's an EV even the guru's should blush at!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

In this article, Bob Dancer is comparing betting one coin vs. five coins and
says betting only one coin is better because you will lose less money.
Using dollars as an example, he is comparing betting $1 vs. $5, per hand.

No shit??!! Really, Bob??! Someone will lose less money by betting $1 per
hand vs. $5 per hand??!! How brilliant.

Hey, Bob....how about betting only 1c per hand? You will lose even less
money!

I seriously hope everyone who reads Bob's article takes his advice.

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:04 AM, vpFREE Administrator > <vpfreeadmin@...>wrote:

> Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 17 AUG 2010
>
> One Coin or Five -- Revisited
>
> http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2010/0817.html
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Good example. Sometimes when you see someone doing something that seems dumb it may just be the perception. Occasionally, after you discover why they're doing it, the dummy turns out to be quite smart. :wink:

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

...when I'm stuck in a place like "Meet Me At Foxwoods" I will play single-coin nickel Deuces Wild for the free booze...
...Last visit I think I lost 2 bucks and sucked down 4 premium type drinks-B& B and Makers Mark.
That's an EV even the guru's should blush at!

#5

This is great! Although I think you could improve your EV even more
by betting 5-coin nickels and just playing 5x slower. That way your
dollar-amount coin-in per unit time will be the same but your return
on that dollar amount will be higher.

···

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 8:30 AM, mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com> wrote:

Those who play in Nevada solely can scoff but when I'm stuck in a place
like "Meet Me At Foxwoods" I will play single-coin nickel Deuces Wild
for the free booze since there is nothing playable under $5 a spin-which
I refuse to play.

It's a much less grim alternative to banging away on their truly awful
(8-5 JOB, 96% DW, etc.) machines at $1.25 a spin.

Last visit I think I lost 2 bucks and sucked down 4 premium type
drinks-B& B and Makers Mark.

That's an EV even the guru's should blush at!

#6

I'm not sure Mr. Dancer's advice has anything at all to do with the topic I initiated. If our goal was to lose less money, then not playing at all would be the best option.

Instead, my post questioned the logic of playing short coin.

Intuition tells me that people usually do it for one of two reasons:

1) They are out of money and cannot afford the max bet.

OR

2) The full-pay version of the game they prefer is not available in the denomination they want to play. Therefore, for example, they play one $5 coin to get the equivalent return of a five coin full-pay $1 bet on all hands except the royal (and certain specialty hands like 4 Aces w/K in TDB which may also be shorted for less than max bet). In effect, while seeking the best paytable they are gambling on NOT getting the "great hand" in that session.

Although I hope each of you hits a royal every time it's a fairly safe bet that during the great majority of your sessions you will not. And for those of you "unlucky" enough to hit a short coin royal, I understand the pain and have certainly "been there, done that" myself once or twice.

The intense frustration comes from seeing such a rare event and realizing you are not fully invested in it. And it doesn't only apply to short coin play. It can happen playing max bet when you reduce denomination in a session and THEN hit a great hand. Recently I played $5 NSUD and lost. I dropped down to $1 level, and (of course) the four deuces appeared in less than 10 minutes.

Don't misunderstand me - I did appreciate the $1000. But those of you who, like myself, mix a bit of emotion with the math while playing understand the slighly "sour" taste left behind.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Luke Fuller <kungalooosh@...> wrote:

In this article, Bob Dancer is comparing betting one coin vs. five coins and
says betting only one coin is better because you will lose less money.
Using dollars as an example, he is comparing betting $1 vs. $5, per hand.

No shit??!! Really, Bob??! Someone will lose less money by betting $1 per
hand vs. $5 per hand??!! How brilliant.

Hey, Bob....how about betting only 1c per hand? You will lose even less
money!

I seriously hope everyone who reads Bob's article takes his advice.

#7

I agree. That sounds like a good plan for maximum enjoyment to me. I do think the five coin and 1/5 speed is a great strategy also.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "casino_camper" <mac_mcclellan@...> wrote:

Good example. Sometimes when you see someone doing something that seems dumb it may just be the perception. Occasionally, after you discover why they're doing it, the dummy turns out to be quite smart. :wink:

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> ...when I'm stuck in a place like "Meet Me At Foxwoods" I will play single-coin nickel Deuces Wild for the free booze...
> ...Last visit I think I lost 2 bucks and sucked down 4 premium type drinks-B& B and Makers Mark.
> That's an EV even the guru's should blush at!

#8

I ran a little experiment over the weekend using the Bankroll Analysis feature of VFW. Consider the following.

Two friends, Joe and Jerry, have a 3-day trip to Las Vegas planned. Each has access to a $5 9/6 JOB machine. They both are bringing $5,000 with them. They are planning to play 8 hours per day and can both expertly play at a rate of 750 hands per hour.

Joe is a bit conservative and does not want to play $25 per hand and decides to play single coin. Therefore he will be playing 18,000 hands, single coin, $5 JOB. He has learned the 1-coin strategy changes over the standard 9/6 JOB strategy.

Jerry thinks Joe is silly to give up the 5-coin Royal Flush bonus and therefore will play 5-coin, but 1/5 as fast. Therefore, Jerry will only be playing 3,600 hands.

The question: Who will be better off, statistically?

The answer: It depends.

Let's look at the VFW Bankroll Analysis results:

Game played: 5-coin 9/6 JOB 1-coin 9/6 JOB
Hands played: 3,600 18,000
Bankroll: $5,000 $5,000
Doubling his stake: 10.07% 0.03%
Play full # of hands: 66.59% 99.17%
Ruined: 23.34% 0.80%
Chance of Profit: 28.07% 15.98%
Chance of Loss: 71.71% 83.84%

As you can see, Joe is almost certain to play his 18,000 hands, and have some money left over (0.08% ROR). Jerry has a 23% chance of losing his entire stake.

But, Jerry has a 10% chance of doubling his stake (to $10,000) while Joe has almost no chance of doing that.

Finally, Jerry has a 28% chance of ending up with more money than he started with; Joe only has a 16% chance of doing so.

So, as with most things, the answer depends on how you look at things and what might be important to you.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "smallfish_61" <rsmalley2@...> wrote:

I do think the five coin and 1/5 speed is a great strategy

#9

How about one more option instead of single coin $5 - $1 9/6 JOB with full coin?

Hands: 18,000
Bankroll: $5000
Chance of doubling: 7%
Risk of Ruin: 1.3%
Chance of Profit: 37%

Looks pretty attractive :slight_smile:

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

The question: Who will be better off, statistically?

The answer: It depends.

Let's look at the VFW Bankroll Analysis results:

Game played: 5-coin 9/6 JOB 1-coin 9/6 JOB
Hands played: 3,600 18,000
Bankroll: $5,000 $5,000
Doubling his stake: 10.07% 0.03%
Play full # of hands: 66.59% 99.17%
Ruined: 23.34% 0.80%
Chance of Profit: 28.07% 15.98%
Chance of Loss: 71.71% 83.84%

#10

No argument there. The problem is that Jerry and Joe would not find $1 9/6 JOB at CP in LV, but would find $5.

Yes, yes, there are lots of $1 9/6 JOB elsewhere. It is just that a large part of the thread that I was addressing was playing 5-coin or 1-coin (see the BD article). Changing the denomination goes off topic.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "casino_camper" <mac_mcclellan@...> wrote:

How about one more option instead of single coin $5 - $1 9/6 JOB with full coin?