vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 16 DEC 2008

#1

AMEN,BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a message dated 12/18/2008 2:25:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
annieadlin@yahoo.com writes:

I am new to the board, but would like to contribute on this subject.
As I was feverishly reading and searching all the available online sources,
Bob Dancer's books and strategy aids seemed like "the bible" of Video Poker.
Then I read the posts and articles about consulting.
On the surface, it sounded OK. After more thought it seemed a bad thing for
the players
because if he was doing his job correctly as a consultant, he would need to
show the Casino's how to 'phase out' or trim down what a professional VP
player would consider a positive expectation, while still trying to increase the
Casino's player base.
I imagine this would mean more tangible giveaways (rooms, Gifts, in-house
items like Spa usage, food). If they could encourage more play from players who
play less than perfect in order to take advantage of the gifts and extras,
from the Casino's stand point, why would you not want to discourage EV+
players, and exchange them for negative expectation players.

It must be a case of make the money while you can consulting, because in the
long term, it would seem that he is going to kill the goose that made him.
If Casino's migrate away from the FP or positive expectation machines, there
will be no market for any of his books or products.
VP will be regulated to a 'can't win' or 'for entertainment only'
proposition.

···

— On Thu, 12/18/08, mguthrie56 <_guthrie56@hotmail.gut_ (mailto:guthri…@…com) > wrote:

From: mguthrie56 <_guthrie56@hotmail.gut_ (mailto:guthri…@…com) >
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 16 DEC 2008
To: _vpFREE@yahoogroups.vpF_ (mailto:vpF…@…com)
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 12:06 AM

So let me get this straight, Dancer contacted Eastside Cannery, the
4700 Joker goes bye-bye, the full pay machines are slowed to a crawl
at both Cannery locations, the 10 play .25 Super Aces are starting
to disappear... and better things will follow??
Bob Dancer is once again looking out for only his own interests and
screwing over everyone else in the process. Bob had to figure out a
way to get all the money he earned on the 10 times point day faster
and this is what he came up with??!! You are full of crap Bob and
you know it!!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

Eastside Cannery Attempts to Get Back on Right
Track --- Part I of II

_http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/

dancer/2008/ 1216.html

<a

href="_http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/
dancer/2008/ 1216.html">

_http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/

dancer/2008/ 1216.html</a>

************ ********* ********* ********* *********

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************ ********* ********* ********* *********

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

You're missing something. Casinos are a retail operation, selling identical products (the games). The only way they can compete is through externals -- ambiance, rules, givebacks, promotions, etc. Much of the appeal is psychological since slot players cannot objectively determine the potential returns on their games. They want to go to the places that treat them the best, feel good to play in and offer the loosest games.

That is why it is good for casinos to offer limited positive expectation games. They serve the same function as loss leaders in big box stores. Since you cannot objectively determine who has the loosest slots, the next best test is to see who has the most favorable video poker. Also, knowledgeable (including advantage) players are often asked where the best places to play are. They will generally answer with the places they like to play at -- i.e. those that have the best games (for that individual).

Phasing out all positive games is NOT good for the casino's bottom line. The trick is to find the optimal mix that will attract the largest revenue and generate the most profits.

However, most casino operators and marketing consultants don't understand advanced analytics or revenue management techniques and make bad decisions that hurt both their patrons and themselves. But what do you expect from an industry that believes technology first sold in 1991 is "state of the art" and will not budge.

Bill

#3

I meant to include this email since it is what I was responding to -- mea culpa

···

At 08:30 AM 12/18/2008, you wrote:

AMEN,BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a message dated 12/18/2008 2:25:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
annieadlin@yahoo.com writes:

I am new to the board, but would like to contribute on this subject.
As I was feverishly reading and searching all the available online sources,
Bob Dancer's books and strategy aids seemed like "the bible" of Video Poker.
Then I read the posts and articles about consulting.
On the surface, it sounded OK. After more thought it seemed a bad thing for
the players
because if he was doing his job correctly as a consultant, he would need to
show the Casino's how to 'phase out' or trim down what a professional VP
player would consider a positive expectation, while still trying to increase the
Casino's player base.
I imagine this would mean more tangible giveaways (rooms, Gifts, in-house
items like Spa usage, food). If they could encourage more play from players who
play less than perfect in order to take advantage of the gifts and extras,
from the Casino's stand point, why would you not want to discourage EV+
players, and exchange them for negative expectation players.

It must be a case of make the money while you can consulting, because in the
long term, it would seem that he is going to kill the goose that made him.
If Casino's migrate away from the FP or positive expectation machines, there
will be no market for any of his books or products.
VP will be regulated to a 'can't win' or 'for entertainment only'
proposition.

— On Thu, 12/18/08, mguthrie56 <_guthrie56@hotmail.gut_ >(mailto:guthri…@…com) > wrote:

From: mguthrie56 <_guthrie56@hotmail.gut_ (mailto:guthri…@…com) >
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 16 DEC 2008
To: _vpFREE@yahoogroups.vpF_ (mailto:vpF…@…com)
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 12:06 AM

So let me get this straight, Dancer contacted Eastside Cannery, the
4700 Joker goes bye-bye, the full pay machines are slowed to a crawl
at both Cannery locations, the 10 play .25 Super Aces are starting
to disappear... and better things will follow??
Bob Dancer is once again looking out for only his own interests and
screwing over everyone else in the process. Bob had to figure out a
way to get all the money he earned on the 10 times point day faster
and this is what he came up with??!! You are full of crap Bob and
you know it!!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:
>
> Eastside Cannery Attempts to Get Back on Right
> Track --- Part I of II
>
> _http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/
dancer/2008/ 1216.html
>
> <a
href="_http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/
dancer/2008/ 1216.html">
> _http://www.casinoga_ (http://www.casinoga/) ming.com/ columnists/
dancer/2008/ 1216.html</a>
>
> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
>
> This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
> constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
> content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
> in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
>
> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#4

so bd's only goal is to make the eastside playable for him again and
too bad for the rest of us...at least his is admitting to it, though
if anybody sees him playing there they will probably explain to
management his advantage and how much he is making an hour off
them...would seem only fair...