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Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 16 DEC 2008

Eastside Cannery Attempts to Get Back on Right
Track --- Part I of II

http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html

<a href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html">
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html</a>

···

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This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

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So let me get this straight, Dancer contacted Eastside Cannery, the
4700 Joker goes bye-bye, the full pay machines are slowed to a crawl
at both Cannery locations, the 10 play .25 Super Aces are starting
to disappear...and better things will follow??
Bob Dancer is once again looking out for only his own interests and
screwing over everyone else in the process. Bob had to figure out a
way to get all the money he earned on the 10 times point day faster
and this is what he came up with??!! You are full of crap Bob and
you know it!!

Eastside Cannery Attempts to Get Back on Right
Track --- Part I of II

http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html

<a

href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html">

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2008/1216.html</a>

************************************************

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************************************************

I am new to the board, but would like to contribute on this subject.
As I was feverishly reading and searching all the available online sources,
Bob Dancer's books and strategy aids seemed like "the bible" of Video Poker.
Then I read the posts and articles about consulting.
On the surface, it sounded OK. After more thought it seemed a bad thing for the players
because if he was doing his job correctly as a consultant, he would need to show the Casino's how to 'phase out' or trim down what a professional VP player would consider a positive expectation, while still trying to increase the Casino's player base.
I imagine this would mean more tangible giveaways (rooms, Gifts, in-house items like Spa usage, food). If they could encourage more play from players who play less than perfect in order to take advantage of the gifts and extras, from the Casino's stand point, why would you not want to discourage EV+ players, and exchange them for negative expectation players.

It must be a case of make the money while you can consulting, because in the long term, it would seem that he is going to kill the goose that made him.
If Casino's migrate away from the FP or positive expectation machines, there will be no market for any of his books or products.
VP will be regulated to a 'can't win' or 'for entertainment only' proposition.

···

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, mguthrie56 <guthrie56@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: mguthrie56 <guthrie56@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 16 DEC 2008
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 12:06 AM

So let me get this straight, Dancer contacted Eastside Cannery, the
4700 Joker goes bye-bye, the full pay machines are slowed to a crawl
at both Cannery locations, the 10 play .25 Super Aces are starting
to disappear... and better things will follow??
Bob Dancer is once again looking out for only his own interests and
screwing over everyone else in the process. Bob had to figure out a
way to get all the money he earned on the 10 times point day faster
and this is what he came up with??!! You are full of crap Bob and
you know it!!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

Eastside Cannery Attempts to Get Back on Right
Track --- Part I of II

http://www.casinoga ming.com/ columnists/ dancer/2008/ 1216.html

<a

href="http://www.casinoga ming.com/ columnists/ dancer/2008/ 1216.html">

http://www.casinoga ming.com/ columnists/ dancer/2008/ 1216.html</a>

************ ********* ********* ********* *********

This link is posted for informational purposes and doesn't
constitute an endorsement or approval of the linked article's
content by vpFREE. Any discussion of the article must be done
in accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.

************ ********* ********* ********* *********

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wouldn't be so harsh. Yes, Bob is all about Bob and Bob's goal is to
be the only true VP professional on the planet. Bob kind of cracks me
up in that regard.

I don't know the situation with E Cannery, but they don't appear to be
as well run as their two sister properties. There's quite a bit of
disconnect between slots and marketing, and what I perceive to be a
great deal of inexperience in slot management. The liquidity crisis in
the financial sector has greatly impacted the gaming sector, which is
cash intensive and dependent on continuous financing to maintain
casino operations.

So, I tend to think his voice is needed. I don't know about his
philosophy, but mine is to offer only high paying programs which are
difficult to play. Think OEJ, JW2, DJW (it's the AC mentality in me,
the East Coast is big on Joker games, Vegas and the rest of the
country is big on the Deuces games, which are much easier to play).

My casino would offer precisely two Jacks or Better games-the 99.6 AA
and 8-5 bonus or AF. My deuces game would be the "full pay" 99.45 BDW.
I'd offer AC Joker or 15-7 Kings or better with a 2% meter. I'd offer
100.3 OEJ and 100.35 DJW, or at least the near 100% versions, and let
the public know all about it. There'd be plenty of Multistrike. I'd
put the skill back into video poker. Slot execs understand that more
people know how to play these days, and that they enjoy the fact that
video poker is a game of skill. Yet they refuse to embrace that
concept to their own advantage. As more players know how to play the
more popular games, you need to offer them a different game to try to
master. Many professionals know how to play exactly two games only-
Jacks and NSUD, and a few just the Jacks. In other words, offer the
public a facially loose product, and offer games where a select few
can beat you. In other words, take the same approach Bill Zender did
when he ran the Aladdin in the 90s. Zender had the highest hold
percentages in the state, and by far the best blackjack games. He let
counters do pretty much whatever they wanted as long as their top bet
wasn't over $50. As a case study, the Aladdin is instructive here.

BTW, I have seen the future. 2009 is going to be a very rough year if
you're trying to make money doing this. One previously very lucrative
market is about to dry up. Player restrictions will be unprecedented.
Bob doesn't affect me very much at all, thank goodness. I play maybe
3-4 stores in Vegas and am thinking of dropping one.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mguthrie56" <guthrie56@...> wrote:

So let me get this straight, Dancer contacted Eastside Cannery, the
4700 Joker goes bye-bye, the full pay machines are slowed to a crawl
at both Cannery locations, the 10 play .25 Super Aces are starting
to disappear...and better things will follow??
Bob Dancer is once again looking out for only his own interests and
screwing over everyone else in the process. Bob had to figure out a
way to get all the money he earned on the 10 times point day faster
and this is what he came up with??!! You are full of crap Bob and
you know it!!

"I wouldn't be so harsh. Yes, Bob is all about Bob and Bob's goal is to
be the only true VP professional on the planet. Bob kind of cracks me
up in that regard."

This is what I find so funny, actually....the concept of a "video poker professional", or how Bob continually states how he really doesn't "enjoy" playing video poker it's just a job - and how annoying it is when people come up and try to watch him or bother him when he's "working". I would hope he "enjoys" it, as that is basically what gambling is there for - entertainment and not a way to depend on making a living.
Yes, there is that aspect, that with a lot of study and memorization you can learn the best percentages on what hands to hold, but in reality this is gambling and that's all it is. Gambling on a machine, no less where no matter how much "skill" one has you are still depending on luck in a great degree.
I love playing video poker, I love those moments of luck that come along. I love playing live poker as well where luck can decimate you but at least you have other chances to use true skill since you are playing against other people and not a random machine. I know, I know, at the limits he plays those edges do make a difference - but in the long run it's a grown-up excuse for living the life of a gambler. Go for it, but don't try to make it something it isn't.

When Bob talks about how it bothers his wife to see him lose $20,000.00 in a weekend (or in a few minutes) I just have to laugh. This is a professional video poker player? He just has to hope for that next full house to come along...or else.

It's gambling, I love it - we all love it or we wouldn't be on this board -- some of us may make a little more at times due to obsessive attention to percentages, but in the end we all are victim to Lady Luck.

Valerie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paladin, you've just provided (for free) consulting advice that should be worth many
thousands of dollars.

I sincerely hope the casino lurkers send this email on to their superiors.

···

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com> wrote:

My casino would offer precisely two Jacks or Better games-the 99.6 AA
and 8-5 bonus or AF. My deuces game would be the "full pay" 99.45
BDW.
I'd offer AC Joker or 15-7 Kings or better with a 2% meter. I'd offer
100.3 OEJ and 100.35 DJW, or at least the near 100% versions, and let
the public know all about it. There'd be plenty of Multistrike. I'd
put the skill back into video poker. Slot execs understand that more
people know how to play these days, and that they enjoy the fact that
video poker is a game of skill. Yet they refuse to embrace that
concept to their own advantage. As more players know how to play the
more popular games, you need to offer them a different game to try to
master. Many professionals know how to play exactly two games only-
Jacks and NSUD, and a few just the Jacks. In other words, offer the
public a facially loose product, and offer games where a select few
can beat you. In other words, take the same approach Bill Zender did
when he ran the Aladdin in the 90s. Zender had the highest hold
percentages in the state, and by far the best blackjack games. He let
counters do pretty much whatever they wanted as long as their top bet
wasn't over $50. As a case study, the Aladdin is instructive here.

BTW, I have seen the future. 2009 is going to be a very rough year if
you're trying to make money doing this. One previously very lucrative
market is about to dry up. Player restrictions will be unprecedented.
Bob doesn't affect me very much at all, thank goodness. I play maybe
3-4 stores in Vegas and am thinking of dropping one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It would nice if one would spell out what they are saying, instead of
the initials. Not all of us are that savvy and there is no reason
to have to go back and forth reading what initials means when it is
so easy to just spell out the words.... AF,BDW, AC, OEJ, DJW,NSUD
Please say what you mean.

Paladin, you've just provided (for free) consulting advice that

should be worth many

thousands of dollars.

I sincerely hope the casino lurkers send this email on to their

superiors.

My casino would offer precisely two Jacks or Better games-the 99.6

AA

and 8-5 bonus or AF. My deuces game would be the "full pay" 99.45
BDW.
I'd offer AC Joker or 15-7 Kings or better with a 2% meter. I'd

offer

100.3 OEJ and 100.35 DJW, or at least the near 100% versions, and

let

the public know all about it. There'd be plenty of Multistrike. I'd
put the skill back into video poker. Slot execs understand that

more

people know how to play these days, and that they enjoy the fact

that

video poker is a game of skill. Yet they refuse to embrace that
concept to their own advantage. As more players know how to play

the

more popular games, you need to offer them a different game to try

to

master. Many professionals know how to play exactly two games only-
Jacks and NSUD, and a few just the Jacks. In other words, offer the
public a facially loose product, and offer games where a select few
can beat you. In other words, take the same approach Bill Zender

did

when he ran the Aladdin in the 90s. Zender had the highest hold
percentages in the state, and by far the best blackjack games. He

let

counters do pretty much whatever they wanted as long as their top

bet

wasn't over $50. As a case study, the Aladdin is instructive here.

BTW, I have seen the future. 2009 is going to be a very rough year

if

you're trying to make money doing this. One previously very

lucrative

market is about to dry up. Player restrictions will be

unprecedented.

Bob doesn't affect me very much at all, thank goodness. I play

maybe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BLavoie <blavoie46@...> wrote:

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
3-4 stores in Vegas and am thinking of dropping one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]