vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 12 DEC 2006

Bob states in this article that his goal as a teacher is to increase the player base, subsequentlyl causing more competition between casinos which will bring great opportunities for strong players. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.
   
  I know what the opportunities were 10 years ago, 8 years ago, 6 years ago, 4 years ago, 2 years ago. I know what they are today, at least for quarter and dollar players. There is absolutely no comparison between today and what it was in the past. My specialty was and is the big edge at lower denomination. So where have all those big edges gone? Well, they are gone with the wind. And they ain't coming back, baby!
   
  I feel like that Great Depression song "once I built a railroad, made it run." I made $30 to $40 an hour for years on the quarter level. I don't have one play like that today. Casino personnel are just too sharp now. Example: My Peppermill host assigned to me by the boothlings after they seen the action I was making ( I refused to go meet him) disqualified me from all drawings and special events after 2.5 days of playing dollar FPDW. The hosts there are trained to sniff out AP's. Slot operations are just as sharp hence the poor inventory these dayls.
   
  So what am I doing these days? Well, shuffle up and deal!
   
  I still look for VP plays and if I find one you can bet I will pounce.

···

---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are you referring to the Peppermill Casino in Reno?

..sq

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Mickey Crimm

Example: My Peppermill host assigned to me by the boothlings after they seen the action I was making ( I refused to go meet him) disqualified me from all drawings and special events after 2.5 days of playing dollar FPDW. The hosts there are trained to sniff out AP's. Slot operations are just as sharp hence the poor inventory these dayls.

Yes, the Peppermill in Reno. It happened 4 years ago. Two of my
friends got the same treatment; disqualified from all drawings and
special events. Another friend got his card pulled completely; but
he had been homesteading them for awhile before they put the deuces
in.

If you are from out of town you probably don't have much to worry
about as you are in town for only a few days. But if you have a
local address you can run into trouble there if a big fat play
developes and you take advantage of it. Here is an extreme case in
point: Not long ago the straight flush and 4 aces meters were not
resetting on the quarter 9/6 double bonus bank next to the poker
room. The poker room is a hotbed of VP pros who picked up on it. I
wasn't there but was told the house didn't snap to it until several
W2G's were issued on the 4 Aces. Several players, including my best
friend, got their cards pulled. --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "shun
quon" <swquon@...> wrote:

Are you referring to the Peppermill Casino in Reno?

..sq

  From: Mickey Crimm

Example: My Peppermill host assigned to me by the boothlings after

they seen the action I was making ( I refused to go meet him)
disqualified me from all drawings and special events after 2.5 days
of playing dollar FPDW. The hosts there are trained to sniff out
AP's. Slot operations are just as sharp hence the poor inventory
these dayls.

···

  ----- Original Message -----

the player base, subsequentlyl causing more competition between casinos
which will bring great opportunities for strong players. Sorry, but
that dog won't hunt.

I agree. I almost laughed out loud when I read that ... wasn't Bob an
ecomomics major? Let's see, the more advantage players will cause the
casinos to compete to give away their money. Pretty humorous.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Mickey Crimm <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Bob states in this article that his goal as a teacher is to increase

  So what am I doing these days? Well, shuffle up and deal!
   

Good luck on that ... BlackJack has taken an even nastier hit in most
casinos from what I can tell (And I use TrackJack in addition to my
visits) ...

As for the Harrah's chains .. they've been telling us out here in the
MidWest for 2 years now that they were working to make the BJ and VP
odds the same across all their properties. It hurt us here, but not as
bad as places like Ceasars ... and I expect that AC 9/6 won't be
there much longer either.

Thank goodness there is another Casino within a few minutes of
Harrah's that has better odds. They still have JOB 9 5 MultiStrike
which may not be great but it's the best I can find here.

Dick wrote: I agree. I almost laughed out loud when I read that ...
wasn't Bob an
ecomomics major? Let's see, the more advantage players will cause the
casinos to compete to give away their money. Pretty humorous.

Yes I was an Economics major. My doctoral work was done at UCLA. What I
said was I wanted to increase the video poker player base. Yes the top
1% or so will be advantage players, but the vast majority of them will
not be. As a group, video poker players LOSE money to the casinos,
although many lose less than slot players.

There is a significant amount of information needed to learn to play
video poker well --- and large amounts of practice. Players like to
learn additional tips. It increases their enjoyment of the game. And
yes, casinos compete for these players. And when they do compete,
opportunities develop for the strongest players.

Many of the posters on vpFREE who have been critical of me teaching
others are already advanced players. Some learned from me. Some learned
from other sources. If they've gone through the efforts to get good,
then good for them! But for the opportunities to continue to exist, we
need not-so-advanced players. And these players need to be educated to
help get them started. And that's what I do, whether the advanced
players are happy with it or not.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

I agree with Bob on this one ...

First, I want to thank him. Without his tools and sharing of
information, I would not be a video poker player of any kind as I
won't spend much time or money playing things where I don't feel that
I have an advantage of some kind.

Second, I believe that the reason that casinos lower their payouts is
very simple .. there are too many uneducated people that are ready to
fill the machines avaiable. I've seen no decrease in number of
players, in fact there are more machines and no more empty seats now
then when the odds were much better a couple years ago.

IF, more people were educated, maybe they would boycott the bad
payouts and casinos would miss our money. As it stands, we got the
first thing right, lots of players, but too many of them are just too
willing to play VP as if it's a slot machine ...

Seems to me that the ONLY way to get better paytables is to educate
more people ...getting them to avoid playing until the paytables make
sense .. then, either casinos will start replacing vp with slots or
realize there is a lot of money to be had at lower theoreticals.

Thanks for the info, Mickey re: Peppermill. Anyone have any info on the Atlantis Casino in Reno? Are the Atlantis casino hosts like the Peppermill casino hosts in regards to their attitudes towards AP's?

..sq

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: mickeycrimm
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:31 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re:Bob Dancer's CasinoGaming Column - 12 DEC 2006

  Yes, the Peppermill in Reno. It happened 4 years ago. Two of my
  friends got the same treatment; disqualified from all drawings and
  special events. Another friend got his card pulled completely; but
  he had been homesteading them for awhile before they put the deuces
  in.

  If you are from out of town you probably don't have much to worry
  about as you are in town for only a few days. But if you have a
  local address you can run into trouble there if a big fat play
  developes and you take advantage of it. Here is an extreme case in
  point: Not long ago the straight flush and 4 aces meters were not
  resetting on the quarter 9/6 double bonus bank next to the poker
  room. The poker room is a hotbed of VP pros who picked up on it. I
  wasn't there but was told the house didn't snap to it until several
  W2G's were issued on the 4 Aces. Several players, including my best
  friend, got their cards pulled. --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "shun
  quon" <swquon@...> wrote:
  >
  > Are you referring to the Peppermill Casino in Reno?
  >
  > ..sq
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: Mickey Crimm
  >
  > Example: My Peppermill host assigned to me by the boothlings after
  they seen the action I was making ( I refused to go meet him)
  disqualified me from all drawings and special events after 2.5 days
  of playing dollar FPDW. The hosts there are trained to sniff out
  AP's. Slot operations are just as sharp hence the poor inventory
  these dayls.
  >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lavonna wrote: I agree with Bob on this one ...

Thank you. I appreciate the support.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

Many of the posters on vpFREE who have been critical of me teaching
others are already advanced players. Some learned from me. Some

learned

from other sources. If they've gone through the efforts to get good,
then good for them! But for the opportunities to continue to exist, we
need not-so-advanced players. And these players need to be educated to
help get them started. And that's what I do, whether the advanced
players are happy with it or not.

Bob Dancer

I'm not kocking you for what you do. I would do the same if I were
you. I'm just lamenting the fact that I no longer get the big edge,
consequently I don't make the easy money at VP anymore. I've
contribited to the demise of the big edge myself having torched many
plays in the past.

If I wanted to bang my head against the wall I could be down at the 4
Queens baning on the dollar, two dollar 10/7 (if it's still there)with
the .3125% card. But experience tells me that if I run too good early
they will pull the game; or I could spend months on the play and still
be in the hole. That's what I don't like about thin edge.

But while I was making that easy VP money I continued to burn the
midnight oil working on my poker game. It was insurance against the
demise of VP. That day has come for me. I know I will still get
opportunities here and there but no longer full time.

I'm a cash game poker player. I don't like the big juice in the
tournaments. I also like the no juice blackjack tournaments,
especially if I get free entry. I'm currently taking a hard look at
this new phenomenon called Elimination Blackjack. I suspect it's a
high juice money grab by the those who invented it but will reserve
final judgement until I know more about it.

I ran into a friend of mine at the Mirage last year. He was a member
of Ken Uston's big player teams in the seventies, long before the MIT
teams. I asked him the loaded question "what is the future of
blackjack (cash game)." He gave me a look like why are you asking
such a stupid question then said "There is no future. Too many
educated players." All those BJ professtionals sold all those books
and taught us all how to play world class blackjack and what do we get
for it, 6/5 blackjack.

Video poker is going the way of Blackjack.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

What Bob says does make some sense. The problem is that with one
seminar and one of Dancer's cards, a player can greatly reduce the
cost of playing the game. So Dancer's school may not be what we need.
What we really need is to get a message out to the masses:

"Look At the Paytable, Stupid" (LAPS)

And, if you play a decent game with some VERY SIMPLE strategies, you
can boost your playing time over the slots. Give good enough
strategies that people can get up to 95 or 97% return but simple
enough to remember, and most will be happy.

How do we convince the average Joe to pay attention. How do we keep
them from sitting down to an 8/5 JoB when there is a 9/6 right next to it.

If done right, demand for good tables will rise, and hopefully supply
will follow.

Some may go on to become APs, but not many.

But how do we reach the masses?

- John

Dick wrote: I agree. I almost laughed out loud when I read that ...
wasn't Bob an
ecomomics major? Let's see, the more advantage players will cause the
casinos to compete to give away their money. Pretty humorous.

Bob Dancer wrote:

···

Many of the posters on vpFREE who have been critical of me teaching
others are already advanced players. Some learned from me. Some learned
from other sources. If they've gone through the efforts to get good,
then good for them! But for the opportunities to continue to exist, we
need not-so-advanced players. And these players need to be educated to
help get them started. And that's what I do, whether the advanced
players are happy with it or not.

<<How do we convince the average Joe to pay attention. How do we keep
them from sitting down to an 8/5 JoB when there is a 9/6 right next to it.

If done right, demand for good tables will rise, and hopefully supply
will follow.

Some may go on to become APs, but not many.

But how do we reach the masses?>>

This is exactly why I wrote "Frugal VP." It starts out very simple, learning how to play JoB only. But I start early stressing the importance of better pay tables and using slot club benefits. Many will go only so far up the path of skilled VP, perhaps not reading every chapter in the book, but what they do read will teach them the fundamentals and make them aware of good and bad paytables. I know from past experience with my other books, most players just "get" a small portion of what I write in a whole book.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@cox.net.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I meant to point out that in many ways, your simple approach seems to
give us even more of what we need than Bob's detailed strategies.
Someone who takes the time to attend one of Bob's seminars and buy his
cards may well be on his way to becoming an AP. Someone who reads one
of your books is probably most interested in just doing better than
they have in the past, although if they try they can also learn the
path to becoming an AP. I don't yet have your FVP book, although I
have requested it for a present.

I remember reading in your fine book More Frugal Gambling that you
gave a very simple strategy for pretty much any JoB game. Easy to
remember, probably gave the average Joe longer sessions, yet still
made the casinos some decent money. It definitely was not "optimal"
in the EV sense, but was optimal in the sense of simplicity.

So the strategies you provide definitely help our cause. But you also
teach the comp game (quite well, I might add...I have learned much
from your books). And people who understand comps can can also hurt
the casinos. So you create people like me who start looking for the
best opportunities and try to take advantae of them until the
disappear. Somehow, what we need is VP players that know enough to
help by raising demand for good tables, but not so much that they hurt
the bottom line at the casinos.

I know I am saying "invite me to join the club, and let everyone see
how much fun I am having, but don't let anyone else in." Not a very
good attitude, I'll admit.

- John

<<How do we convince the average Joe to pay attention. How do we keep
them from sitting down to an 8/5 JoB when there is a 9/6 right next

to it.

If done right, demand for good tables will rise, and hopefully supply
will follow.

Some may go on to become APs, but not many.

But how do we reach the masses?>>

This is exactly why I wrote "Frugal VP." It starts out very simple,

learning how to play JoB only. But I start early stressing the
importance of better pay tables and using slot club benefits. Many
will go only so far up the path of skilled VP, perhaps not reading
every chapter in the book, but what they do read will teach them the
fundamentals and make them aware of good and bad paytables. I know
from past experience with my other books, most players just "get" a
small portion of what I write in a whole book.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "queenofcomps" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What Bob says does make some sense. The problem is that with one
seminar and one of Dancer's cards, a player can greatly reduce the
cost of playing the game. So Dancer's school may not be what we

need.

What we really need is to get a message out to the masses:

"Look At the Paytable, Stupid" (LAPS)

And, if you play a decent game with some VERY SIMPLE strategies, you
can boost your playing time over the slots. Give good enough
strategies that people can get up to 95 or 97% return but simple
enough to remember, and most will be happy.

How do we convince the average Joe to pay attention. How do we keep
them from sitting down to an 8/5 JoB when there is a 9/6 right next

to it.

If done right, demand for good tables will rise, and hopefully

supply

will follow.

Some may go on to become APs, but not many.

But how do we reach the masses?

I don't think anyone will. The problem with VP is that NO ONE has the
leverage to reach the masses. By far the vast majority of people are
introduced to VP through friends and family. Only if they are lucky
enough to come across knowledgeable players will they even think to
look at the paytables. Hey I was like that my first few times playing
VP.

As it is, the well known VP gurus are pretty much only well-known by
those who are already knowledgeable. CP magazine, etc. are primarily
read by those of us looking to increase our knowledge and the vast
majority of the VP players don't even know it exists.

The only way to get get leverage is through mass media, like TV.
Although the Travel Channel has provided "some" exposure, it spends
so little time covering VP that it will never provide the needed
leverage. And VP will never get the exposure of something like poker
because we are trying to win money from the casino, not other
players. You can bet the casinos aren't going to help out.

The fact is that Bob will never have a significant impact on getting
people to search for better paytables (although certainly more than
almost anyone else) unless something comes along to reach the masses.
I just can't see it happening.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:

<<I know I am saying "invite me to join the club, and let everyone see
how much fun I am having, but don't let anyone else in." Not a very
good attitude, I'll admit.>>

I think we all are tempted to think that way a little, even if we try not to.

Few (if any) skilled VP players learned "everything" themselves. And even the few that figured out the EV's and strategies themselves before the gurus published their charts and wrote their articles and books and brought out their software - they used other resources when they came out to refine their findings, to find new opportunities, etc.

We all have "used" each other and are in debt to others for sharing their expertise and knowledge.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@cox.net.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Risk Analysis field is fairly new and did not exist on 1/100th
the current scale 10-15 years ago. As in many other fields, smaller,
cheaper, faster computers and software have allowed analysts to do
more work, crunch more data, etc, in a tiny fraction of the time and
effort it took just 10-15 years ago.

I think that is most of the "problem" we face today. By today's
standards, figuring out best-play or % optimal return on a VP game is
simple and fast. Yes, VP gurus like Bob and Jean have also had an
effect, but I think the reason the casinos know better now is because
the casinos CAN (easily) know better now. I think there will still
be some ok plays in the future, because once the Risk people get more
influence over the Accounting people, the Risk people will have no
problem allowing for a (very) small % of AP play (given comps, etc),
if they think it helps the overall bottom line. In Accounting, if
anyone wins, it's a loss. In Risk, it's about predictability and
best and most sustainable profitablity over the entire gaming group.

But I also think the days of massive, widely available, widely
utilized, ultra-positive plays are over. You will find tech errors,
maybe, and some well-calculated, intentional AP's that are made to
attract non-AP'ers where AP'ers will be tolerated.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "queenofcomps" <queenofcomps@...>
wrote:

<<I know I am saying "invite me to join the club, and let everyone

see

how much fun I am having, but don't let anyone else in." Not a very
good attitude, I'll admit.>>

I think we all are tempted to think that way a little, even if we

try not to.

Few (if any) skilled VP players learned "everything" themselves.

And even the few that figured out the EV's and strategies themselves
before the gurus published their charts and wrote their articles and
books and brought out their software - they used other resources when
they came out to refine their findings, to find new opportunities,
etc.

We all have "used" each other and are in debt to others for sharing

their expertise and knowledge.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - "FRUGAL VIDEO POKER"
This new book (autographed) and other
   frugal products are now available at my
   new Web site, http://queenofcomps.com/.
   E-mail address is queenofcomps@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have enjoyed the dialogue on this board that has accompanied Bob's
column. It is interesting to read the various points of view. As
background, I am a recreational gambler living in the Dallas area
who visits LV 3-4 times per year. The remaining gambling is done in
the Shreveport area, primarily at the Horseshoe. I have been a
reader on this and a couple of other boards for the past couple of
years but never have posted. This is a rather long post so please
bear with me.

My wife and I just returned early this morning (red eye special)from
a LV trip. While we stayed at MSS, we visited Caesar's and Bally's
for some VP, dinner and show. It is from this perspective that I
offer the following observations and opinions.

At MSS, we searched out the few machines offering 10/7 DB and
generally played only those. While MSS has a very extensive
inventory of VP machines, these in particular (the ones located near
the valet parking entrance) were busier than any others on the
whole. It reinforced the basic economic principle that a
knowledgeable consumer seeks out the best deal, but not
universally. Either the other players (consumers) are not as
knowledgeable, don't care or use other criteria to make their choice
of machines. Given that, these particular machines were not
universally being played for the best paying game. Like my wife,
perhaps the DB game is a bit intimidating to many people. I have to
give credit to Jean Scott's Frugal Video Poker for allowing me to
print out a strategy sheet as I only practiced for just 30 minutes
on this game (we usually play JOB or BP) prior to our trip. It was
slow going but enjoyable picking up the new game.

Sorry for the digression, so back to the observations. For those
unfamiliar with MSS, there is a bank of machines with a sign on top
that clearly says "Over 100% payback". Out of this bank of 12, only
3 have this particular game and pay schedule. Despite this sign,
only these three machines received play of any consequence.
Clearly, these players knew there was a difference. Capitalizing on
that, though, was an entirely different story. As I mentioned, not
all of the players played the best game. Even those that did play
10/7 DB made errors that would clearly reduce their return below the
optimum return. These were not egregious errors but the ones that
FVP would characterize as Low. These errors were not random due to
accidental error but clearly a deliberate choice. Since I was a
novice at the game, I rechecked the strategy chart several times to
see if they were making an error or I just misunderstood. Sometimes
they were correct but often they were wrong.

What is my bottom line take on this? Clearly, some players have
become educated to seek out better pay schedule machines. However,
most are not able to capitalize on that either through choice
(playing a less desirable game) or lack of skill. The end up to the
casino is greater play on the desireable machines but still
profitable play given the choice or skill of the players.

The observations at Caesar's was essentially confirmation of the
same phenomena. As we walked through the much reported
decimated "garage VP area", we observed very little action both
during the day and at night, albeit it was a weekday. When we went
to the 9/6 JOB machines in the Palace Casino as reported on this
board, again we observed a lot of action. The seats for the few
number of machines were virtually always full although a small wait
would enable someone to sit at a "good machine". Again, despite the
knowledge, the choice of games by the players was not always the
best. What was even more startling was the decidedly poorer skill
level of players. The machines are not your budget variety, with
play starting at the dollar level. I witnessed a few $5 single line
players who skill level was decidedly a couple of percentage points
short of optimum. With one point equal to approximately $150 per
hour shortfall, their play was a good contributor to Harrah's bottom
line. Again, despite a proclivity for the players to play the
better paying machines, the casino was still getting a good return.

So, did Bob Dancer's column create the change made by Harrah's at
Caesars? IMHO it did not. I have witnessed the Harrahization of
the Horseshoe when they took over from Jack Binion in Shreveport.
Bob Dancer did not write about that. It took a while, but it
occurred. There are still some decent plays available at the Shoe
(strictly 9/6 JOB) but with cash back and bounce back and multiple
point days, the house edge drops still more but decidely not to
clearly positive territory without factoring in comps.

The genie is out of the bag. With the advent of PC's, the
ubiquitous internet and ability to exchange information globally,
nothing remains a secret very long. Those of us that are relatively
new to taking VP seriously are indebted to the likes of Bob, Jean
and Dan Paymar (his book Video Poker - Optimum Play was my first
education in VP). Their education work does make it more difficult
for the select few who play professionally and the other more
serious recreational players. That is a price to pay but that
happens in all human endeavors. Better players beget more difficult
conditions - witness the Tiger proofing of golf tournament
courses. Overall, I believe their efforts are more beneficial to
the whole than not.

Last bit of input a bit off this particular topic. As a Harrah's
Diamond player, I took the advice from this board and inquired about
free theater tickets at the Total Rewards desk at Caesars. They
gave us several options and we chose Jubilee at Bally's. What an
absolutely spendid production. Seats were smack in the middle of
the theater $85 seats. Great benefit.

Sarah has some great comments. I believe that there is another reason
that casinos don't pay out as much as might be expected on better
paytables. That is volatility. Frankly, most non-professional players,
don't have the time or the funds to play enough on any "visit" to get
near theoretical returns.

The newer games like MultiStriks appear to make this worse from the
player's perspective. The odds are there but only if one has a huge
bankroll and lots of time.

Then again, there is the "luck" factor that slot players favor.

But if a really good machine is busy all the time, most players will
run out of funds before hitting a really big hand and as Sarah
indicated, a significant number of players aren't playing at optimal
thugh they can easily miss the big hands when they are "due" accoding
to the RNG.

What Bob says does make some sense.

It does, but it's tough. I was reading today about the meeting's for
the offer presented to Harrahs for the buy out, and a thought came. My
thought was "competition". Perhaps this company wanting to buy out
Harrahs decides to put all the good games back, make a bit less money
at first, but in the long run becomes the casinos that everyone wants
to play at because of their liberal pay scales. That leaves MGM
scrambling to get their customers back. Could work, but it will take a
while. Damn, I should sign up for CEO! LOL

But how do we reach the masses?

You won't. We read these forums, research the internet on gambling
stratedgies, but the masses don't and never will.

Kurt

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:

The first point you made is so so true! But I believe the casinos
would like to see VP get mass exposure on TV.

A year or two ago I lamented how VP was losing the publicity game to
regular poker, and that trend continues. And I imagine the published
experts like Bob, Jean, etc. would like to see this change. At that
time I suggested a format for a VP tournament for TV ... called the
World Series of VP.

Unfortunately it's very difficult to make viewing VP action as
interesting as regular poker ... with the hole card camera, player
interaction, etc. In spite of this, it would be good publicity to
award a "VP World Champion" each year on TV. But it seems unlikely
it will happen. Someone has to propose the idea to the cable people.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

The only way to get get leverage is through mass media, like TV.
VP will never get the exposure of something like poker
because we are trying to win money from the casino, not other
players. You can bet the casinos aren't going to help out.