vpFREE2 Forums

bob dancer sabotaging advantage players

#1

really?

here are two newsletters circulated to casino employees, containing
articles written by bob dancer, titled "beware of smart players". it
lists a number of typical ways that casinos accidentally create
opportunities for advantage players, and how to shut them down.

http://www.actiongaming.com/newsletter/TIS0305.pdf
http://media.igt.com/marketing/Newsletters/InsideStraight_The/Newsletter_TIS_16_September2005.pdf

i have no idea how anyone can look at these articles and NOT conclude
that the author is sabotaging advantage players. i'm sure he offers
similar advice when consulting for casinos.

i like taking money from casinos. it's fun, and it's profitable. if
dancer wants to tell casinos how to prevent me from taking their
money, that's his right - but he is not my ally, and is not my friend.

regards,

five

···

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:

But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

#2

Thanks for sharing five. I find it fairly hypocritical that he advocated the use of the "accepted" light and a dont ask/wont tell slot club to them, but blasts this practice in his consumer books.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "fivespot" <fivespot55@gmail.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:27 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] bob dancer sabotaging advantage players

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:

But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

#3

I think Bob Dancer could be a Double Agent!

Regards,

007

But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

really?

here are two newsletters circulated to casino employees, containing
articles written by bob dancer, titled "beware of smart players". it
lists a number of typical ways that casinos accidentally create
opportunities for advantage players, and how to shut them down.

http://www.actiongaming.com/newsletter/TIS0305.pdf
http://media.igt.com/marketing/Newsletters/InsideStraight_The/Newsletter_TIS_16_September2005.pdf

#4

Well thanks for those links, they were really interesting. But I am not convinced Bob Dancer is a "bad guy". I still think he is looking to protect the future of the game, and opportunity for both "sides". However, it sure would be cool to read what he has to say about this.

C'mon, guys, for all of us who have faithfully read his books and columns, we all know he is really perceptive and bright. He must know what he is doing, even if it might need a little explaining.

Let's relax and leave the driving to Bob, but it would be nice to know where he's taking this bus.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
> But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
> sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

really?

here are two newsletters circulated to casino employees, containing
articles written by bob dancer, titled "beware of smart players". it
lists a number of typical ways that casinos accidentally create
opportunities for advantage players, and how to shut them down.

http://www.actiongaming.com/newsletter/TIS0305.pdf
http://media.igt.com/marketing/Newsletters/InsideStraight_The/Newsletter_TIS_16_September2005.pdf

i have no idea how anyone can look at these articles and NOT conclude
that the author is sabotaging advantage players. i'm sure he offers
similar advice when consulting for casinos.

i like taking money from casinos. it's fun, and it's profitable. if
dancer wants to tell casinos how to prevent me from taking their
money, that's his right - but he is not my ally, and is not my friend.

regards,

five

#5

Bob Dancer is a traitor and should be treated as such.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: cwilski@rogers.com
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:02:01 -0400
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] bob dancer sabotaging advantage players

I think Bob Dancer could be a Double Agent!

Regards,

007

But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

really?

here are two newsletters circulated to casino employees, containing
articles written by bob dancer, titled "beware of smart players". it
lists a number of typical ways that casinos accidentally create
opportunities for advantage players, and how to shut them down.

http://www.actiongaming.com/newsletter/TIS0305.pdf
http://media.igt.com/marketing/Newsletters/InsideStraight_The/Newsletter_TIS_16_September2005.pdf

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® goes with you.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Mobile1_052009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

I posted this (link) over two years ago,both on my website and on VPFree. Ummm...Duh. Bob plays his own game, and for some reason, feels entitled to play both sides of the street.

I may have a more entitled analysis later, but he gets no air from me (nor apparently from Harrahs NOLA when flying Southwest :)) ).

If you want the truth, Jean isn't much better, her "I'm just a little old lady" act is pretty slick, but I've seen it before from others. Not as bad as Bob, but I don't think she has that much right to complain when they get into it with each other (one of the parts of VPFree that I miss, the lovely banter between Jean and Bob lol).

Most pros take swings at the casino at some point in time. It helps decrease the risk of ruin, and add substantial EV. Its a question of degree, and quite a bit of what I see out of the Vegas pros clearly crosses the line IMHO.

As you can see, I'm not really big on writers. This deal, this deal of ours, you don't get movie deals or spots on Leno or King. It's the way it is, and frankly, I prefer it that way.

Anyway, more later. Busy as always lol...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:
> But the point as phrased in this thread is whether he is trying to
> sabotage the advantage player. Clearly not.

really?

here are two newsletters circulated to casino employees, containing
articles written by bob dancer, titled "beware of smart players". it
lists a number of typical ways that casinos accidentally create
opportunities for advantage players, and how to shut them down.

http://www.actiongaming.com/newsletter/TIS0305.pdf
http://media.igt.com/marketing/Newsletters/InsideStraight_The/Newsletter_TIS_16_September2005.pdf

i have no idea how anyone can look at these articles and NOT conclude
that the author is sabotaging advantage players. i'm sure he offers
similar advice when consulting for casinos.

i like taking money from casinos. it's fun, and it's profitable. if
dancer wants to tell casinos how to prevent me from taking their
money, that's his right - but he is not my ally, and is not my friend.

#7

As I've mentioned, I am relatively new to this and I'm sorry I missed some of what you are talking about. I didn't know there was any problem between Jean Scott and Bob Dancer. I've gone to great length to study their writing, both of them. I cannot believe that they are not both very nice people, especially Jean seems like a real sweetheart.

You mentioned you have a website. Do you still have it? Can you post a link? Also, I notice that flyer from IGT is dated 2005. I'd like to read more of THAT stuff! Pretty interesting!

Thanks,
-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

I posted this (link) over two years ago,both on my website and on VPFree. Ummm...Duh. Bob plays his own game, and for some reason, feels entitled to play both sides of the street.

I may have a more entitled analysis later, but he gets no air from me (nor apparently from Harrahs NOLA when flying Southwest :)) ).

If you want the truth, Jean isn't much better, her "I'm just a little old lady" act is pretty slick, but I've seen it before from others. Not as bad as Bob, but I don't think she has that much right to complain when they get into it with each other (one of the parts of VPFree that I miss, the lovely banter between Jean and Bob lol).

Most pros take swings at the casino at some point in time. It helps decrease the risk of ruin, and add substantial EV. Its a question of degree, and quite a bit of what I see out of the Vegas pros clearly crosses the line IMHO.

As you can see, I'm not really big on writers. This deal, this deal of ours, you don't get movie deals or spots on Leno or King. It's the way it is, and frankly, I prefer it that way.

Anyway, more later. Busy as always lol...

#8

players

>
You mentioned you have a website. Do you still have it? Can you post a

link? Also, I notice that flyer from IGT is dated 2005.

The website is here:
http://paladingaming.net/index.php

It is fortunate that you're into old news as the owner apparently has had
nothing to say on the site for two years. However, you can click on a
handful of links to online gaming sites to help the have bullets will travel
guy boost his income.
          Nudge

···

From: "bobbartop" Subject: [vpFREE] Re: bob dancer sabotaging advantage

#9

Ok, thank you for the link. I was just curious since he mentioned it. I am not familiar with the posters here. I'll check it out later and decide if it's worth my time reading.

Just looking at it briefly, I saw the banner ad for INET or whatever it's called. Ah, that brings back fond memories of gambling online before they did their thing in 2006. I do remember playing at that site. They paid me, but locked me out after I hit a straight flush on Pick'em for $600. lol Online was really fun. I hope it comes back in this country. In fact, didn't I read somewhere that Barney Frank was supposed to introduce legislation this week? I gotta catch up on my reading.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:

The website is here:
http://paladingaming.net/index.php

It is fortunate that you're into old news as the owner apparently has had
nothing to say on the site for two years. However, you can click on a
handful of links to online gaming sites to help the have bullets will travel
guy boost his income.
          Nudge

#10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T6I7q9lE0w
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427998/quotes

"To feel alive and to get this energy, it is essential for me to kill something each day. It doesn't have to be a large animal. I squish an ant once in a while, or spiders, they come very easily. I've shot stray dogs. Goose.. is a very, very troublesome animal. I've had a goat. To strangle a goat, that makes you feel really alive. "

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

This deal, this deal of ours

#11

bobbartop - "Ah, that brings back fond memories of gambling online before they did their thing in 2006. I do remember playing at that site. They paid me, but locked me out after I hit a straight flush on Pick'em for $600. lol Online was really fun."

Troll.

Several times in the last few days you've made a point of stating "I'm new to this video poker thing..." etc.

Now you state you were playing vp online prior to 2006.

All of your posts have had that faux naif feel, while you act as if you're Bob Dancer's personal publicist.

Please come back asap with a few "lol's" and "gee, I really don't know much about this", "All of this is new to me", and keep trying to stir things up with your Dancer devotion.

#12

That's right, I said I am RELATIVELY new to this. I started in the early part of this decade, ONLINE. That doesn't mean I'm new to gambling. I resent your implications.

Oh, and I'm relatively new to this bulletin board also. I had NO idea there was this kind of sentiment about Bob Dancer. You sound like a sour person. In fact, there seems like quite a few sour people here. That's nothing new. I know gamblers. Ready to blame everything else but yourselves. I don't owe you any explanation either, but essentially you just called me a liar. Up yours!

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jw776655" <jw776655@...> wrote:

Troll.

Several times in the last few days you've made a point of stating "I'm new to this video poker thing..." etc.

Now you state you were playing vp online prior to 2006.

All of your posts have had that faux naif feel, while you act as if you're Bob Dancer's personal publicist.

Please come back asap with a few "lol's" and "gee, I really don't know much about this", "All of this is new to me", and keep trying to stir things up with your Dancer devotion.

#13

Bob, while I agree with your sentiments, control your anger on the board or use the PM function. I would hate to see you banned because small minded argumentative posters caused you to be upset.

···

--- On Thu, 5/7/09, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: bob dancer sabotaging advantage players
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 7:50 AM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "jw776655" <jw776655@.. .> wrote:

Troll.

Several times in the last few days you've made a point of stating "I'm new to this video poker thing..." etc.

Now you state you were playing vp online prior to 2006.

All of your posts have had that faux naif feel, while you act as if you're Bob Dancer's personal publicist.

Please come back asap with a few "lol's" and "gee, I really don't know much about this", "All of this is new to me", and keep trying to stir things up with your Dancer devotion.

That's right, I said I am RELATIVELY new to this. I started in the early part of this decade, ONLINE. That doesn't mean I'm new to gambling. I resent your implications.

Oh, and I'm relatively new to this bulletin board also. I had NO idea there was this kind of sentiment about Bob Dancer. You sound like a sour person. In fact, there seems like quite a few sour people here. That's nothing new. I know gamblers. Ready to blame everything else but yourselves. I don't owe you any explanation either, but essentially you just called me a liar. Up yours!

-BB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

Ok. Thanks. Sorry about that.

Tell the jury to disregard my last comment in that exchange.

And I am not a troll. If I say something that sounds naive or stupid, I am being genuine. It just comes natural to me.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, NC Wanderer <larbo929@...> wrote:

Bob, while I agree with your sentiments, control your anger on the board or use the PM function. I would hate to see you banned because small minded argumentative posters caused you to be upset.

#15

Well, Bob, you mentioned a 102% JW2 Sigma paytable that hasn't been around in a long, long time (Resorts AC for halves, IIRC). I mean, last I heard that paytable being offered was something like 2002, and that's about two eons in the world of VP.

So, while I don't really care one way or another, it's a trivial point compared to the big picture on VPFree, it's a hard set of facts to reconcile. Unless you meant something else.

Quite a bit of coin was won online early on, but online is a very, very dicey propositon. It's not worth my time.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jw776655" <jw776655@> wrote:
>
>
> Troll.
>
> Several times in the last few days you've made a point of stating "I'm new to this video poker thing..." etc.
>
> Now you state you were playing vp online prior to 2006.
>
> All of your posts have had that faux naif feel, while you act as if you're Bob Dancer's personal publicist.
>
> Please come back asap with a few "lol's" and "gee, I really don't know much about this", "All of this is new to me", and keep trying to stir things up with your Dancer devotion.
>

That's right, I said I am RELATIVELY new to this. I started in the early part of this decade, ONLINE. That doesn't mean I'm new to gambling. I resent your implications.

Oh, and I'm relatively new to this bulletin board also. I had NO idea there was this kind of sentiment about Bob Dancer. You sound like a sour person. In fact, there seems like quite a few sour people here. That's nothing new. I know gamblers. Ready to blame everything else but yourselves. I don't owe you any explanation either, but essentially you just called me a liar. Up yours!

#16

Someone asked for a link to my website...it's paladingaming.net (when in doubt, Google lol). I discuss Bob ad nauseum in one of my articles there. Although the article was written several years ago, my opinion hasn't changed.

Problem is, if it isn't Bob, it would be someone else. Bob's deal has long been not to be the biggest VP professional around, but the only one. We can discuss the ethics of that another time.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

#17

You may be mistaken. I mentioned that game, because I just read someone else mention it on VPfree a couple weeks ago. So, before two weeks ago I had never heard of it before. The game I may have mentioned, or meant, was the JW2 that returns 99.92. It's a fun game to me, because it is so difficult.

I've been on this board maybe a month or so now, and I think I've been called a liar twice already. Tough crowd! lol

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc" <paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

Well, Bob, you mentioned a 102% JW2 Sigma paytable that hasn't been around in a long, long time (Resorts AC for halves, IIRC). I mean, last I heard that paytable being offered was something like 2002, and that's about two eons in the world of VP.

So, while I don't really care one way or another, it's a trivial point compared to the big picture on VPFree, it's a hard set of facts to reconcile. Unless you meant something else.

Quite a bit of coin was won online early on, but online is a very, very dicey propositon. It's not worth my time.

#18

bobbartop wrote

I've been on this board maybe a month or so now, and I think I've been called a liar twice already. Tough crowd! lol

-BB

No! Their pussy cats. Go over to FREEvpFREE. That's where the real action is. Incidentally, I haven't seen 8-7-6 2P Jokers since like 1996 in Nevada.

#19

I was just talking to a friend of mine earlier today and we were both laughing about how ignorant we were back in the 90s regarding video poker. Back then I was just interested in poker and he is a horse player. Now we're both into video poker and wondering about the "good old days" that were only a decade ago. I had NO clue about video poker back then even though I had read about certain people making $7 an hour on Deuces Wild machines. Of course, I didn't know a full-pay from an ugly duck. You "old timers" must have had a lot of fun back then. You guys were "pioneers". I like to read stories of those times.

Heck, I got into vp about maybe 2002 or 2003, and I have seen drastic evolution of the game in just these few years. I think when I was first learning, the Stations Casinos were just saying that they were going to cut the points in half for full-pay games. So maybe it was 2004, I don't remember exactly. My first visit to Vegas during that period I remember playing JW-Kings at the Key Largo. I was still pretty "green" but I remember that being a good play for quarter players. That was fun.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Incidentally, I haven't seen 8-7-6 2P Jokers since like 1996 in Nevada.

#20

I have a thread over at videopoker.com where I explain the big edge plays I've had going back to 1996. The thread is about a 100 posts long now and I make a new post every few days, as time permits. Go to videopoker.com. Click on Video Poker Stories. Then click on My History in Video Poker. You don't have to be a member to read the posts.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

> Incidentally, I haven't seen 8-7-6 2P Jokers since like 1996 in Nevada.
>

I was just talking to a friend of mine earlier today and we were both laughing about how ignorant we were back in the 90s regarding video poker. Back then I was just interested in poker and he is a horse player. Now we're both into video poker and wondering about the "good old days" that were only a decade ago. I had NO clue about video poker back then even though I had read about certain people making $7 an hour on Deuces Wild machines. Of course, I didn't know a full-pay from an ugly duck. You "old timers" must have had a lot of fun back then. You guys were "pioneers". I like to read stories of those times.

Heck, I got into vp about maybe 2002 or 2003, and I have seen drastic evolution of the game in just these few years. I think when I was first learning, the Stations Casinos were just saying that they were going to cut the points in half for full-pay games. So maybe it was 2004, I don't remember exactly. My first visit to Vegas during that period I remember playing JW-Kings at the Key Largo. I was still pretty "green" but I remember that being a good play for quarter players. That was fun.

-BB