vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer Column - 6 SEP 2016

#1

Bob Dancer Column - 6 SEP 2016

What Are You Trying to Get?

http://www.gamblingwithanedge.com/what-are-you-trying-to-get

or

<a href="http://www.gamblingwithanedge.com/what-are-you-trying-to-get">
http://www.gamblingwithanedge.com/what-are-you-trying-to-get</a>

···

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

#2

Bob wrote: "...One of the problem hands was A♠ K♠ 3♦ 4♦ 5♦ ...My answer of “I’m not really trying for anything” didn’t particularly satisfy her..."

If you weren't trying for anything, you wouldn't draw, you'd just stand pat. Just the act of drawing implies that you are indeed trying for something. In the case above, if you hold the 345 of diamonds and draw two, you are trying to complete a straight flush, and if not that then at least a flush, or straight, or trips, or pairs. You might not succeed, which is why they call it gambling, but you are at least trying. In the end, to quote the old TV series Kung Fu, there is no try, only do or do not, but when you draw, you are trying.

The lake questions Yudhisthira https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMpjoL5Yws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMpjoL5Yws

The lake questions Yudhisthira https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMpjoL5Yws From the Peter Brook's adaptation of The Mahabharata.

View on www.yout... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiMpjoL5Yws
Preview by Yahoo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

NOTI wrote, "In the end, to quote the old TV series Kung Fu, there is no try, only do or not do, but when you draw, you are trying".

I think you're thinking of Yoda's quote in The Empire Strikes Back: "No, try not! Do or do not. There is no try."

--Dunbar

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote :

Bob wrote: "...One of the problem hands was A♠ K♠ 3♦ 4♦ 5♦ ...My answer of “I’m not really trying for anything” didn’t particularly satisfy her..."

If you weren't trying for anything, you wouldn't draw, you'd just stand pat. Just the act of drawing implies that you are indeed trying for something. In the case above, if you hold the 345 of diamonds and draw two, you are trying to complete a straight flush, and if not that then at least a flush, or straight, or trips, or pairs. You might not succeed, which is why they call it gambling, but you are at least trying. In the end, to quote the old TV series Kung Fu, there is no try, only do or do not, but when you draw, you are trying.

Do. Or do not. There is no try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No

Do. Or do not. There is no try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No Luke has given up before he begun by doubting his own abilities and not entrusting himself into the force and the guidance of his master. https://www.yo…

View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No
Preview by Yahoo

---Dunbar

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

I understood Bob, but have no idea what either one of you are talking about.

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <h_dunbar@...> wrote :

NOTI wrote, "In the end, to quote the old TV series Kung Fu, there is no try, only do or not do, but when you draw, you are trying".

I think you're thinking of Yoda's quote in The Empire Strikes Back: "No, try not! Do or do not. There is no try."

--Dunbar

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

noti wrote: You might not succeed, which is why they call it gambling, but you are at least trying. In the end, to quote the old TV series Kung Fu, there is no try, only do or do not, but when you draw, you are trying

I disagree --- although it might just be semantics.

To me "trying to get xxx" means to attempt to get something specific.

In video poker, I'm not doing that. I'm picking the combination with the highest EV. If you want to call it "trying to do the best I can from that starting position according to the strategy I think is appropriate," okay. I'll agree with that. In that sense, I'm trying. But I don't think most people talk that way or mean that when they use the phrase.

Using your Kung Fu quote, I am doing. I am not trying. Although I don't think most people talk that way either. I did enjoy that TV series and I thank you for the flash back. And we did pull Harry out of the woodwork for a comment, and that's pretty cool too.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Dunbar wrote: "I think you're thinking of Yoda's quote in The Empire Strikes Back: "No, try not! Do or do not. There is no try." "

I think it's originally from Taoism:

google.com/#q=wu+wei

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Bob wrote: "In video poker, I'm not doing that. I'm picking the combination with the highest EV."

OK. But the EV is determined by the underlying principles of draw poker and I still say if you're drawing, you're trying to get something you don't now have, whereas if you stand pat, you've got something. I think you explained it when you explained the EV, you said you can get a straight flush, flush, straight, trips or pairs by drawing to a partial straight flush. Maybe the response is why not draw to the royal instead, but the royal is harder to get, expressed in EV. It's the same reason football teams sometimes go (try) for the field goal instead of the touchdown.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

BBT wrote: "I understood Bob, but have no idea what either one of you are talking about."

Wu Wei is like muscle memory. Like when you first try to ride a bicycle, you're learning, you're trying to keep your balance, you're intensely concentrating, you have some successes and some failures. But eventually there comes a point, you can either ride a bicycle or you can not, if you can ride a bicycle it becomes an extention of your body, you no longer have to think about how to ride a bicycle, you just do. There is definitely Wu Wei in video games. Sometimes someone asks me if such and such a hand beats such and such a hand and I have to think about it, because that's not how I play video poker, it's just become Wu Wei. Sometimes someone asks me about my last hand and I have to ask, what was it? I just did it, it was done, I either got some credits or didn't, and it's on to the next hand. I imagine that is what Dancer is talking about. Royals I remember, but it's some 40,000 hands or so between them, that's mostly a lot of empty blacktop, wide open rangeland miles to be bicycled through. And of course on the 50 and 100 plays it's the dealt hands I remember, and miss during the droughts. Wu Wei is not for everyone, fortunately there are other options. How about drunken monkey Kung Fu video poker?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Uh, well thanks for clearing THAT up.

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote :

BBT wrote: "I understood Bob, but have no idea what either one of you are talking about."

Wu Wei is like muscle memory. Like when you first try to ride a bicycle, you're learning, you're trying to keep your balance, you're intensely concentrating, you have some successes and some failures. But eventually there comes a point, you can either ride a bicycle or you can not, if you can ride a bicycle it becomes an extention of your body, you no longer have to think about how to ride a bicycle, you just do. There is definitely Wu Wei in video games. Sometimes someone asks me if such and such a hand beats such and such a hand and I have to think about it, because that's not how I play video poker, it's just become Wu Wei. Sometimes someone asks me about my last hand and I have to ask, what was it? I just did it, it was done, I either got some credits or didn't, and it's on to the next hand. I imagine that is what Dancer is talking about. Royals I remember, but it's some 40,000 hands or so between them, that's mostly a lot of empty blacktop, wide open rangeland miles to be bicycled through. And of course on the 50 and 100 plays it's the dealt hands I remember, and miss during the droughts. Wu Wei is not for everyone, fortunately there are other options. How about drunken monkey Kung Fu video poker?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

BBT wrote: "Uh, well thanks for clearing THAT up."

Just for another example, you may have a strategy chart that tells you the EV of a 4 card no gap straight flush draw is greater than the EV of a two pair draw, but only if it's a no gapper, a gut shot 4 card straight flush draw has a lower EV than a two pair draw. This is totally useless information, it's total psychobabble, you can never get these hands together in a five card deal. Instead of trying to concentrate on the EV of all the different hands, you need to concentrate on the possible choices found in five cards. It should become natural (Wu Wei) to know the best action for each possible five card deal. Your eyes see and your fingers react, without having to think about the cards or your fingers, you have made the mind-machine connection. And you should be able to do this over and over again, regardless of all the other distractions around you.

Here's a video of Bill Murray explaining the concept as it applies to golf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbQTXFJL8lo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

There is one game where this information is relevant. In Dream Card, if you are dealt a hand such as 4 of clubs and 456 of hearts plus a dream card, you need to know which has a higher EV, 4 to an open SF or 3 of a kind. The machine gives you the third 4, but since it is known to give you the incorrect card in at least one other situation, you need to know the respective EV's in order to be sure.

Hask

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]