vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer Book report

Bill-
   Please chill out on this one. I would not call someone a "thief" and "dishonest" for swiping some coupons from a maid's cart. I doubt the Las Vegas district attorney or the Atlantic County prosecutor would go after someone for taking some extra coupons or slipping a couple packets of Sweet N' Low into her purse. Especially with outright cheaters (a couple Nevada regulators were busted in AC a few years back with an elaborate keno scheme) and people grabbing thousands of dollars of chips from the dealer's tray.
   There are a lot of gray areas in gambling and casino life. For example, if a blackjack dealer pays you when they shouldn't, most players will keep their mouth shut and take the money. I saw once at Bally's in AC that a newbie blackjack player got paid when she pushed, and pointed out the mistake to the dealer. The dealer took the money back. Then the other players at the table quietly told her, next time be quiet about it. Totally ethical and honest? No, but that's the way a lot of people play it.
   Some people take food out of buffets, even if the sign says "no takeout." In his book, "Comp City," Max Rubin describes one man who put Ziploc baggies in his inside jacket pockets and stuffed them with shrimp and a woman who would put 10 pounds of prime rib into a shopping bag to feed her dogs. I think that is WAY over the line. But if someone takes out a banana to eat later, or a slice of turkey for her cats (I've been known to do that), it doesn't exactly make you Kenneth Lay.
   Everyone has to draw their own line. Personally, I've never taken anything worth more than about a quarter. My own rule for myself is if it's put there for me to use, and will be thrown away if I use part of it, I have no problem taking it. Thus soap, shampoo, etc. are fair game. (If I really like the lotion, I will ASK the maid for more, not steal it from her cart.) If it's something that would be washed and reused again (ashtray, silverware, towel) I don't take it.
   Is it OK to play off credits that someone else left on a machine? I do it many times. I don't go looking for them, as a cadre of folks in AC do, but if I notice it, I'll play it. I think it's like picking up a dollar bill someone dropped on the floor and didn't pick up. As far as I know, at least in AC, it is not considered theft _ as long as the person doesn't graduate to stealing buckets of quarters.
   Technically, if I go into a casino, put a quarter in a slot machine, hit a cherry and get two quarters, I have to report that 25 cents as income to the IRS. I doubt one gambler in 10,000 does that. That's why the IRS set limits for W2-Gs so they get their share of the larger wins. I sure hope no one's monitoring this board and reporting all the wins and losses we talk about to the feds.
   Bill, I know you're a legal professional and I'm not, but have you ever seen someone actually prosecuted for these things? There are things that are clearly legal and clearly illegal, but in these gray areas I think everyone has to make their own decision.

Elaine

      I suppose stealing coupons from a maid cart is crossing the
line. However, that is the only time I have clearly stepped over
the line.

Then you are a thief -- an untrustworthy and dishonest person. End of
discussion.

That is not a legal defense. Trust me; I know what I'm talking about --
as a legal professional.

snip

Cheers.

Bill Velek

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Bill Velek <billvelek@alliancecable.net> wrote:Quad Zilla wrote:

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Bill-

   Please chill out on this one. I would not call someone a "thief" and

"dishonest" for swiping

some coupons from a maid's cart. I doubt the Las Vegas district attorney

or the Atlantic County

prosecutor would go after someone for taking some extra coupons or

slipping a couple packets of

Sweet N' Low into her purse.

  Interesting stuff. I think pilfering coupons is worse than taking some
sweet and low home.
But both are clearly stealing. It looks like Bill thinks that all such
acts are to be lumped
together. That view is defensible, but awfully rigid.

  We all know intelligent people who are stupid in one way or another.
Should we now
consider them to be stupid simply beacuse they are not intelligent in all
ways. I don't
think so. The same goes here. Someone whose most criminal act is to swipe
a sweet n' low
or a few coupons is, at worst, suffering a laspe in judgement. A blanket
judgement of "thief"
is just too harsh, even though that person did commit a theft.

  QZ

I have a question. Since Steve started this thread five days ago, most of
the re:'s have had absolutely nothing to do with either Bob Dancer or his
book. Do any of you folks participating in this thread actually know how to
change a subject line? For those of us looking for other opinions from
people who have read the book, the theft of sweet and low and the quantity
of the theft is of very little interest. Same goes for the heart pounding
totally titillating saga of the missing coupons from the maids cart. Why
would you folks want to make this list harder to follow than it should be?
If you want to discuss bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu( the sound you make while exhaling
and rapidly moving your stiffly extended index finger back and forth between
your upper and lower lip), please label it that way. Thanks.

Nudge

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Velek" <billvelek@alliancecable.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer Book report

You are correct. I hadn't realized that the coupons were of little
value.

I have a question. Since Steve started this thread five days ago, most of
the re:'s have had absolutely nothing to do with either Bob Dancer or his
book.

Thanks, Nudge -- my feelings exactly! I was hoping to see a discussion of
the book (if not a discussion of my report) also.
-- Steve in LV (original poster of this thread)

... but <sighhhh> he also failed to change the subject line ... which
_I_ have now done at the request of both of you gentleman,
Cheers.
Bill Velek

Bill,
  I purposely did not change the subject line so that the offenders that had
morphed this thread and were still following it would read my post.

You are of course correct, Nudge, but you could learn >to practice what you

preach and to have a little bed-side >manner.

Not qualified to be a priest or a doctor, just trying to enjoy the forum the
way it was intended to be.
                                                                      Nudge

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Velek" <billvelek@alliancecable.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] You're correct; I'm sorry; why didn't you lead by example?