vpFREE2 Forums

Bob and Frank's new Progressives

#1

That was my point about "variance". You lose money pretty quickly unless you get a RF. You must be willing to stay long enough, and have enough of a bankroll, to wait for the RF, that occurs, on average, once every 40,000 hands or so. Otherwise you lose (a lot of?) money. A "pro" can do this; that is his/her "job". It is probably not something that I would be willing to do on a 3-4 day vacation to LV.

Again, my OPINION, not gospel for everyone.

..... bl

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote:

Im going to have to buy Franks book to better understand progressives. Ive talked to Dancer in person, after a class, and he even says royals are mostly luck. Ill never forget that statement. I would have a hard time getting myself to play an 6/5 BP progressive even if the meter was positive. If the bank is full who is to say I will hit it ever and come out ahead. Im not a long haul player so I always try to find the best base pay schedule.

#2

With proper strategy for high royal meters the royal cycle will be reduced from a "standard" strategy, but I suggest anyone who plays progs with the intent on making money do the requisite ror calcs to get a sense of reality. The return on these machines will need to be substantially better than other opportunities to make them attractive to smart action.

Chandler

Chandler

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@> wrote:
>
> Im going to have to buy Franks book to better understand progressives. Ive talked to Dancer in person, after a class, and he even says royals are mostly luck. Ill never forget that statement. I would have a hard time getting myself to play an 6/5 BP progressive even if the meter was positive. If the bank is full who is to say I will hit it ever and come out ahead. Im not a long haul player so I always try to find the best base pay schedule.

That was my point about "variance". You lose money pretty quickly unless you get a RF. You must be willing to stay long enough, and have enough of a bankroll, to wait for the RF, that occurs, on average, once every 40,000 hands or so. Otherwise you lose (a lot of?) money. A "pro" can do this; that is his/her "job". It is probably not something that I would be willing to do on a 3-4 day vacation to LV.

Again, my OPINION, not gospel for everyone.

..... bl

#3

Chandler wrote:

With proper strategy for high royal meters the royal cycle will be
reduced from a "standard" strategy, but I suggest anyone who plays
progs with the intent on making money do the requisite ror calcs to
get a sense of reality. The return on these machines will need to
be substantially better than other opportunities to make them
attractive to smart action.

You intelligently identify a factor that actually makes these machines more prime for team play w/ shared bankroll vs individual (relative to more traditional progressives).

And, truth is, my personal take is that Frank is hedging a little disingenuously when suggesting that the "perpetual" attractiveness of this bank would discourage team play. (I actually visualize an equilibrium scenario in which a team takes down all attractive meters in rotation over a series of days, leaving a barren bank that needs a great deal of ploppy play to become interesting again. Mind you, some meters may be left at 100.1% opportunities, or the like, but given the variance, such meters are hardly attractive to the player that values his bankroll.)

Don't get me wrong. I believe Frank when he says the primary motivation was to set in place a sustainable progressive for the casino and players at large, and I think this fits that bill admirably.

- H.

#4

instead of thinking of a crap paytable with superhigh prog as a "101%
$1 play", it might be better to think of it as a "100.5% $5 play,
played very slowly". the EV and variance profiles are almost
identical:

$1 7/5 JoB RF=12000: 100.93%
EV of +$0.0465 +/- $67.85 per hand
at 800 hands/hr, EV of $37.20 +/- $1919 per hour

$5 9/6 JoB with 0.95% cashback: 100.49%
EV of +$0.1225 +/- $110.43 per hand
at 300 hands/hr, EV of $36.75 +/- $1912 per hour

how many people will want to play a very slow $5 machine disguised as
a fast $1 machine? beats me. :slight_smile: i'm sure i'll give it some play,
though i'm also sure it'll rarely be my first choice.

cheers,

five

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Chandler <chandler_re@comcast.net> wrote:

With proper strategy for high royal meters the royal cycle will be reduced from a "standard" strategy, but I suggest anyone who plays progs with the intent on making money do the requisite ror calcs to get a sense of reality. The return on these machines will need to be substantially better than other opportunities to make them attractive to smart action.