oh? how'd that happen? not paying your taxes?
five
···
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
The BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure more than a decade ago.
"BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure"
Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Frank <frank@...> wrote:
> The BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure more than a decade ago.
oh? how'd that happen? not paying your taxes?
five
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote:
_______________________________________________
No we paid our taxes. Some of our players did not. We were paying them as independent contractors and that's what the IRS took issue with.
~FK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_contractors_vs._employees
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Frank <frank@> wrote:
> > The BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure more than a decade ago.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@> wrote:
oh? how'd that happen? not paying your taxes?five
_______________________________________________
No we paid our taxes. Some of our players did not. We were paying them as independent contractors and that's what the IRS took issue with.
~FK
Why? Jesus said 'and the truth shall set you free'. If everyone on the 'team' is honest just incorporate and pay taxes on net
winnings. I think that BIG teams became extinct not because of IRS pressure but because of dishonesty of team members
and the cutback in good games. On a personal note I'll be glad when all cheaters go you know where. They are the scum
of the earth.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: fivespot <fivespot55@gmail.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 12:30 am
Subject: [vpFREE] "BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure"
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
The BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure more than a decade ago.
oh? how'd that happen? not paying your taxes?
five
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's a little more to the story than meets the eye. Frank may have run a clean ship but that doesn't mean the other teams did. Down and out "to hell with the IRS" hustlers would sign W2-G's for up to 10%.
Steve was a poker dealer at the Colorado Belle when I was spending lots of time in Laughlin from 1996 to 2002. He told me about being down and out when he first came to Las Vegas....and going to work on Tuna Lund's team.
I asked him what was going on with the W2-G situation. Who was signing? He said "There was lots of swapping seats going on. I signed a bunch. A few years later I started dealing poker, got married and settled down....then the IRS dunned me for $50,000. They finally settled with me for $7,000. I had to make payments until I got it all paid."
Tuna is dead now. "To hell with the IRS!" would probably be a nice litle epitaph on his tombstone.
Very interesting stuff. I always wondered why the IRS treated like we were trying to get away with something and just common criminals, when to my knowledge we reported every penny we made correctly, and filled for all of it. I'm now thinking that they were lumping us in with the other teams, and we caught heat for their bad behavior.
There is a lesson to be learned here. If one is part of a community, that's perceived as a cohesive group (like professional gamblers) it only takes one bad apple to spoil it for the bushel.
We had nothing to do with the other teams, and no financial connection to them. But of course the IRS had no way of knowing that. They must have assumed if one team is trying to get away with something, they probably all are.
Now here's the question: will even one person intending to break the law in a casino now refrain because of the knowledge that it could hurt more than just themselves...I doubt it.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote: There's a little more to the story than meets the eye. Frank may have run a clean ship but that doesn't mean the other teams did. Down and out "to hell with the IRS" hustlers would sign W2-G's for up to 10%.
Steve was a poker dealer at the Colorado Belle when I was spending lots of time in Laughlin from 1996 to 2002. He told me about being down and out when he first came to Las Vegas....and going to work on Tuna Lund's team.
I asked him what was going on with the W2-G situation. Who was signing? He said "There was lots of swapping seats going on. I signed a bunch. A few years later I started dealing poker, got married and settled down....then the IRS dunned me for $50,000. They finally settled with me for $7,000. I had to make payments until I got it all paid."
Tuna is dead now. "To hell with the IRS!" would probably be a nice litle epitaph on his tombstone.
"I always wondered why the IRS treated like we were trying to get away with something and just common criminals"
Because that's how they treat all citizens, regardless.
Valerie
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5924 (20110303) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure more than a decade ago.
oh? how'd that happen? not paying your taxes?
No we paid our taxes. Some of our players did not. We were paying them as independent contractors and that's what the IRS took issue with.
ok, but... why would that lead to extinction? i don't see why the
business model collapses if you pay them as employees instead.
Frank, even Objectivists who eschew altruism still speak of
the glory of doing the right thing because it's the right thing.
Most people aren't the type who want to poison the well.
Of course, there are morons, as it was recently put here,
and rude ones and all varieties of unnice folks in this world.
And you have to take it into account.
Me, I wouldn't cheat if I thought I could pull it off.
100% sure, stolen food tastes bad.
···
--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: "BIG teams became extinct due to IRS pressure"
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 3, 2011, 4:13 PM
Very interesting stuff. I always wondered why the IRS treated like we were trying to get away with something and just common criminals, when to my knowledge we reported every penny we made correctly, and filled for all of it. I'm now thinking that they were lumping us in with the other teams, and we caught heat for their bad behavior.
There is a lesson to be learned here. If one is part of a community, that's perceived as a cohesive group (like professional gamblers) it only takes one bad apple to spoil it for the bushel.
We had nothing to do with the other teams, and no financial connection to them. But of course the IRS had no way of knowing that. They must have assumed if one team is trying to get away with something, they probably all are.
Now here's the question: will even one person intending to break the law in a casino now refrain because of the knowledge that it could hurt more than just themselves...I doubt it.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote: There's a little more to the story than meets the eye. Frank may have run a clean ship but that doesn't mean the other teams did. Down and out "to hell with the IRS" hustlers would sign W2-G's for up to 10%.
Steve was a poker dealer at the Colorado Belle when I was spending lots of time in Laughlin from 1996 to 2002. He told me about being down and out when he first came to Las Vegas....and going to work on Tuna Lund's team.
I asked him what was going on with the W2-G situation. Who was signing? He said "There was lots of swapping seats going on. I signed a bunch. A few years later I started dealing poker, got married and settled down....then the IRS dunned me for $50,000. They finally settled with me for $7,000. I had to make payments until I got it all paid."
Tuna is dead now. "To hell with the IRS!" would probably be a nice litle epitaph on his tombstone.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nordo123@aol.com wrote:
I'll be glad when all cheaters go you know where. They are the scum of the earth.
Liars and cheaters perform the very valuable service of punishing
those who don't see the truth for themselves. I suspect the human
race needs them to survive, or at least would be much worse off
without them, just as forests need fires and bushes need pruning to
flourish.
Because they expected us to treat all our players as though the were full time employees, even the ones that worked only one day a week. I was already gone when the hammer came down. Perhaps Tom could answer it better for you.
I have heard the same things from the other team managers, but I was in Tahoe at the time.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote: ok, but... why would that lead to extinction? i don't see why the business model collapses if you pay them as employees instead.