Has anyone seen a bigger play than the 10-play $25 machines at
Bellagio & Wynn? If you are dealt a pair of jacks on one of those
monsters, do you get a 1040g? It doesn't seem right that you would,
but it seems that a $4000 royal should only get a 1040 for $3995, but
it doesn't work that way. That's why I wondered about the dealt jacks.
Big Play--Just curious
This is the biggest bet per hand VP machine that I have heard of.
The biggest play I have personally seen was a bank of 100 play multi-
denomination machines with $1 as the top choice ($500 per hand). Of
course, most of the players on those machines were betting one
nickel, one line at a time 
A dealt pair of Jacks would indeed trigger a W2-G event on the
machine that you describe because the $1250 minimum payout would
exceed the $1200 threshold for W2-Gs. I would imagine the casino
would need to have someone stand behind the player the entire time
with a log sheet to record all of the W2-G hits. Then they would
probably issue you one big W2-G at the end of the session. Of course
it's not fair to get a W2-G for $1250 on a hand that you actually
broke even on, but those are the rules. Unfortunately, there's not
much of a government lobby organization for high limit VP players.
EE
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ozymandias77096" <ugwf@h...> wrote:
Has anyone seen a bigger play than the 10-play $25 machines at
Bellagio & Wynn? If you are dealt a pair of jacks on one of those
monsters, do you get a 1040g?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
anytime you get a 1200$ win on any slots you will get a w2-g
ozymandias77096 <ugwf@hal-pc.org> wrote:Has anyone seen a bigger play than the 10-play $25 machines at
Bellagio & Wynn? If you are dealt a pair of jacks on one of those
monsters, do you get a 1040g? It doesn't seem right that you would,
but it seems that a $4000 royal should only get a 1040 for $3995, but
it doesn't work that way. That's why I wondered about the dealt jacks.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
···
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was playing at the atlantis in the Bahamas and was playing the $1.00 triple play DDB which was $15.00 a punch, and hit 4 aces with kicker on 2 lines and cashed out over 4,500. I was not given a W-2 for this. No hand pay was required either. Just TITO.
Kim
···
----- Original Message -----
From: gene scheel
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Big Play--Just curious
anytime you get a 1200$ win on any slots you will get a w2-g
ozymandias77096 <ugwf@hal-pc.org> wrote:Has anyone seen a bigger play than the 10-play $25 machines at
Bellagio & Wynn? If you are dealt a pair of jacks on one of those
monsters, do you get a 1040g? It doesn't seem right that you would,
but it seems that a $4000 royal should only get a 1040 for $3995, but
it doesn't work that way. That's why I wondered about the dealt jacks.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was playing at the atlantis in the Bahamas and was playing the
$1.00 triple play DDB which was $15.00 a punch, and hit 4 aces with
kicker on 2 lines and cashed out over 4,500. I was not given a W-2
for this. No hand pay was required either. Just TITO.
Kim
I think the operative word here is "Bahamas." That's as in, "Not in
the USA," and therefore outside the reach of your good friends at the
IRS.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Darryl and Kim" <darrylandkim@c...> wrote:
I agree. I think the whole taxing of winnings is unfair. You could, for example, lose $10,000 per year for five years in a row and then finally one year you win $10,000. Over the 6 years you have lost $40,000 but you still have pay the taxes on the "$10,000 win". Makes no sense to me.
In Canada, where I live, gambling wins, gifts and inheritances are not subject to tax. Once, while in Reno, I won $2,000 and they only gave me $1400 because they collected $600 of taxes. Luckily I got it back when I filed an American tax return (about 10 months later) called a 1040NR. I wrote down the statement "Losses exceed winnings" and I got all my money back. Since then I have filed tax forms for Canadian friends who won money in US casinos and they always got a full refund.
Myra
It doesn't seem right that you would,
but it seems that a $4000 royal should only get a 1040 for $3995, but
···
it doesn't work that way. .
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Yahoo! Groups Links
Nobody ever feels that taxes are fair, i.e. everybody feels that they
should pay less (and that therefore everyone else should pay more).
If I follow your reasoning, I should be able to pay less income tax
based on the idea that I'm going to be making a lot more money this
year than in the previous 4 years, and that I should therefore pay
taxes based on the average of the previous years? Heck, it should also
work the other way, I should get a tax credit for the 5 years before I
got married, arguing that the money I was earning and saving would be
used when I got married.
Seriously, it's a game for crying out loud, I personally find it
inappropriate to complain about the way games are taxed. I can think
of reasons why in my opinion the income tax system is unfair (e.g.
cases where you're taxed on income you never actually had), but
gambling definitely doesn't make the list in my opinion, sorry.
JBQ
···
On 6/24/05, Myra Andrews <myraandrews@shaw.ca> wrote:
I agree. I think the whole taxing of winnings is unfair.
Seriously, it's a game for crying out loud, I personally find it
inappropriate to complain about the way games are taxed. I can think
of reasons why in my opinion the income tax system is unfair (e.g.
cases where you're taxed on income you never actually had), but
gambling definitely doesn't make the list in my opinion, sorry.
OK, fine, but if I'm going to be taxed on gambling winnings as regular income, I should be able to deduct losses against regular income.
But I can't... which is patently unfair.
Write your Congressman!
He, and the rest of their ilk, are the reason so many things in the
tax code are unfair. Yes, it is pattently unfair. But, too often the
Congress uses the tax structure to acomplish social engineering.
And you know where gambling sits with respect to social engineering.
.....bl
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Thomas <jfthomas3@c...> wrote:
OK, fine, but if I'm going to be taxed on gambling winnings as
regular income, I should be able to deduct losses against regular
income.But I can't... which is patently unfair.
I have no idea why you posted this in reply to an honest comment.
Casinos can call it gaming but players are foolish to consider it a
fame when money is involved. A pure fairness issue that there is no
rebuttal for let alone a high-handed one. That was what
was "inappropriate".
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru <jbqueru@g...>
wrote:
Nobody ever feels that taxes are fair, i.e. everybody feels that
they
should pay less (and that therefore everyone else should pay more).
If I follow your reasoning, I should be able to pay less income tax
based on the idea that I'm going to be making a lot more money this
year than in the previous 4 years, and that I should therefore pay
taxes based on the average of the previous years? Heck, it should
also
work the other way, I should get a tax credit for the 5 years
before I
got married, arguing that the money I was earning and saving would
be
···
used when I got married.
Seriously, it's a game for crying out loud, I personally find it
inappropriate to complain about the way games are taxed. I can think
of reasons why in my opinion the income tax system is unfair (e.g.
cases where you're taxed on income you never actually had), but
gambling definitely doesn't make the list in my opinion, sorry.JBQ
On 6/24/05, Myra Andrews <myraandrews@s...> wrote:
> I agree. I think the whole taxing of winnings is unfair.
You can report gambling losses as itemized deductions, in an amount
less than or equal to your gambling wins for the year. What you cannot
do is carry losses over from one year to another, just like about any
other form of income (exceptions are typically related to long-term
investments).
If you do not file itemized deductions, consider that you are already
being given a tax gift, being allowed to deduce several thousand
dollars of miscellaneous expenses without having to justify anything.
You will find information about keeping gambling diaries in various
places online, and I'm pretty sure that "Tax help for the frugal
gambler" contains some fairly thorough information.
Yeah, it's not perfect. Comps are probably gifts, i.e. you probably
can't report gambling losses against them, and we know that
mathematically some games are so close to being even and have such a
high variance that even at the scale of a year you might reasonably
end up quite positive or quite negative.
JBQ
···
On 6/25/05, John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net> wrote:
OK, fine, but if I'm going to be taxed on gambling winnings as
regular income, I should be able to deduct losses against regular
income.But I can't... which is patently unfair.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Boutot" <vegas_iwish@y...>
wrote:
I have no idea why you posted this in reply to an honest comment.
Casinos can call it gaming but players are foolish to consider it a
fame when money is involved. A pure fairness issue that there is no
rebuttal for let alone a high-handed one. That was what
was "inappropriate".
Sorry, i did not find the rebuttal "high handed" or "inappropiate"
just accurate, & farmers can "income average" & net operating losse
can be carried back & forward for bizness owners because CONGRESS
wants it that way. Courts have ruled over & over that tax laws do NOT
have to fair.
AND please, there no such thing as a "honest comment" "that there is
no rebuttal for" Talk about high handed.
M J
p.s. cash back & comps are NOT taxable
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru <jbqueru@g...>
wrote:
> Nobody ever feels that taxes are fair, i.e. everybody feels that
they
> should pay less (and that therefore everyone else should pay
more).
>
> If I follow your reasoning, I should be able to pay less income
tax
> based on the idea that I'm going to be making a lot more money
this
···
> year than in the previous 4 years, and that I should therefore pay
> taxes based on the average of the previous years? .
Thanks for the info.
JBQ
<<p.s. cash back & comps are NOT taxable >>
That is not black and white by any means. The IRS hasn't addressed cashback specifically so some people count it and some do not, with some logical reasons on both sides. Most comps, like shows, food, rooms, are not taxable, and this has been held up in court. However, it is not so cut and dried about merchandise comps - there have been IRS cases where people had to count larger gifts from the casino, like TV's, cars, etc. For instance, a comped cruise usually (but not always - no consistent policy for all casinos) gets a 1099 and thus you would need to put this down as income. (Although not getting a 1099 or W2G doesn't mean one doesn't have to count something as income) However, if it is given because of your play then you can add it to your session wins and, if you itemize, then your losses, if you had enough, would "wipe it off."
The "unfair" thing is, of course, that having to put your GROSS wins as income impacts you negatively in many different areas (including state taxes), even if you itemize and can take your losses (up to the amount of wins) as a deduction. A more "fair" system would be to let you net out your wins/ losses for the year and a good compromise, IMO, would be to have your NET yearly win taxed as regular income even though you couldn't take losses against regular income. But, as has been said, no one ever said taxes were "fair," in any area. And we need to be glad that some social police in Congress haven't been successful in cutting out ALL deductions for gambling losses.
This subject is discussed at length in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," which is not in general bookstores, but can be ordered on my Web site below or at other online sites.
···
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
Updated Second Edition of
"The Frugal Gambler."
You can report gambling losses as itemized deductions, in an amount
less than or equal to your gambling wins for the year. What you cannot
do is carry losses over from one year to another, just like about any
other form of income (exceptions are typically related to long-term
investments).
Here's the issue (and I'm just pulling numbers out of the air) -- if I finish the year with a net positive gambling gain (after deducting all losses) of $5,000, it's regular income. If I finish the year with a net negative gambling loss (after applying all winnings) of ($5,000), then it's nothing at all -- even if I have another $100,000 of regular wage income, that loss is completely not deductible.
If it goes one way, it should go the other way.
Writing your congressman will do no good, but it's a good idea anyway.
If you do not file itemized deductions, consider that you are already
being given a tax gift, being allowed to deduce several thousand
dollars of miscellaneous expenses without having to justify anything.
Tax "gift"? That's like thanking a mugger who robs you at gunpoint of your wallet and watch, for not taking your shoes. Please. It's no "gift" -- it's my money, not the government's....
···
On Jun 25, 2005, at 12:54 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru wrote:
Please don't make negative personal comments about
other posts.
Disagree with a post if you like, but keep it impersonal.
vpFREE Administrator
···
On 25 Jun 2005 at 16:29, Michael Boutot wrote:
I have no idea why you posted this in reply to an honest comment.
Casinos can call it gaming but players are foolish to consider it a
fame when money is involved. A pure fairness issue that there is no
rebuttal for let alone a high-handed one. That was what was
"inappropriate".
On 25 Jun 2005 at 17:01, mklpryy24 wrote:
AND please, there no such thing as a "honest comment" "that there is no
rebuttal for" Talk about high handed.
The "unfair" thing is having to pay 'income tax' at
all. We should not be taxed on our earnings but
should be taxed on our consumption. Get behind the
'Fair Tax' and get rid of the IRS altogether!!
···
--- Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote:
<<p.s. cash back & comps are NOT taxable >>
That is not black and white by any means. The IRS
hasn't addressed cashback
specifically so some people count it and some do
not, with some logical
reasons on both sides. Most comps, like shows,
food, rooms, are not
taxable, and this has been held up in court.
However, it is not so cut and
dried about merchandise comps - there have been IRS
cases where people had
to count larger gifts from the casino, like TV's,
cars, etc. For instance,
a comped cruise usually (but not always - no
consistent policy for all
casinos) gets a 1099 and thus you would need to put
this down as income.
(Although not getting a 1099 or W2G doesn't mean one
doesn't have to count
something as income) However, if it is given
because of your play then you
can add it to your session wins and, if you itemize,
then your losses, if
you had enough, would "wipe it off."The "unfair" thing is, of course, that having to put
your GROSS wins as
income impacts you negatively in many different
areas (including state
taxes), even if you itemize and can take your losses
(up to the amount of
wins) as a deduction. A more "fair" system would
be to let you net out
your wins/ losses for the year and a good
compromise, IMO, would be to
have your NET yearly win taxed as regular income
even though you couldn't
take losses against regular income. But, as has
been said, no one ever said
taxes were "fair," in any area. And we need to be
glad that some social
police in Congress haven't been successful in
cutting out ALL deductions for
gambling losses.This subject is discussed at length in "Tax Help for
the Frugal Gambler,"
which is not in general bookstores, but can be
ordered on my Web site below
or at other online sites.________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
Updated Second Edition of
"The Frugal Gambler."
[JT] If it goes one way, it should go the other way.
[JT] it's my money, not the government's....
Well, I guess it's a matter of point of view, and I think that we'll
have to agree to disagree on that one.
(Sorry for the meaningless post, but I feel that it would have been
impolite to leave your message unanswered, yet I think that we're
stuck at the point where we have some different opinions and have
reached a dead end).
JBQ
It is not just a game. It is a multibillion dollar industry, and I see
nothing more innappropriate about the consumer voicing an opinion over their
taxes than I would Harrah's or IGT. IMO, some U.S./state gambling taxe regs
are unfair. Even more aggravating, they are often confusing and unclear.
Americans have a long history of tax protest. Yes, there are a lot of tax
kooks to roll your eyes at out there, but the genesis of the United States
was in part due to tax kooks.
Chandler
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Jean-Baptiste Queru
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:39 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Big Play–Just curious
Seriously, it's a game for crying out loud, I personally find it
inappropriate to complain about the way games are taxed. I can think
of reasons why in my opinion the income tax system is unfair (e.g.
cases where you're taxed on income you never actually had), but
gambling definitely doesn't make the list in my opinion, sorry.
JBQ
On 6/24/05, Myra Andrews <myraandrews@shaw.ca> wrote:
I agree. I think the whole taxing of winnings is unfair.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
<<p.s. cash back & comps are NOT taxable >>
That is not black and white by any means. The IRS hasn't addressed
cashback
specifically so some people count it and some do not,
"The Frugal Gambler."
Yes they have & the courts have said like wise & also said IF it is
ever requierd you can deduct losses against the cashback,
You will get a 1099 or w2p for a prize for contest. Be carefull when
you get an offer, if it says you won, you pay, it it says our gift to
myou , you dont
Donald Trump had a major problem with this regarding a gambler who
filed bankruptcy on his debts, he try to reclassify all the gifts he
gave him to income , court did not allow,
ustaxcourt.gov execelent site for info
M J
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote: