I am looking for a rating on Dover Downs and Charles Town on their VP
like you rate the casinos at AC. Example: I looked at the various
casinos at AC and your site told what are the best games and where to
find them. I am new to your site and I do not know the correct
wordage. Thanks.
Best VP in Dover Downs
momnmejft wrote:
I am looking for a rating on Dover Downs and Charles Town on their VP
like you rate the casinos at AC.
Gaming in DE/WV is limited to VLT's. The video poker isn't randomly
dealt - hands are based upon predetermined outcomes. Your play
expectation is no different than that for most any other type of slot.
Reported returns for these casinos run 90%-92%.
- H.
Actually, this is not true. In those jurisdictions hands are dealt
and drawn with every card having an equal chance of appearing.
Whether the machine is a VLT or not refers to how the accounting (and
often the ownership) is structured. VLT's can work like Nevada
machines or they can work as they do in NY racinos and Wash Indian
where they emulate scratch-off lottery tickets.
···
At 06:21 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote:
momnmejft wrote:
> I am looking for a rating on Dover Downs and Charles Town on their VP
> like you rate the casinos at AC.Gaming in DE/WV is limited to VLT's. The video poker isn't randomly
dealt - hands are based upon predetermined outcomes. Your play
expectation is no different than that for most any other type of slot.
Reported returns for these casinos run 90%-92%.- H.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill Coleman wrote:
Actually, this is not true. In those jurisdictions hands are dealt
and drawn with every card having an equal chance of appearing.
Whether the machine is a VLT or not refers to how the accounting (and
often the ownership) is structured. VLT's can work like Nevada
machines or they can work as they do in NY racinos and Wash Indian
where they emulate scratch-off lottery tickets.
Thanks for the clarification, Bill.
If I understand, in this case the VLT nomenclature is a little
misleading. One might interpret the "lottery" part to suggest a
mechanism that yields a predetermined result, and not just determines
the dealt cards centrally - as appear to be the case in DE/WV (vs. at
the machine, as in a NV compliant machine).
This would explain the observation posted occasionally of a VLT that
doesn't have an "outcome correction" (genie/match card/etc.) and
suggests the gaming in the racinos is "fair".
For myself, a certain degree of rare skepticism kicks in. I presume
that we're not talking about a mainstream vp manufacturer in the
racinos' equipment.
I have my doubts that the gaming authorities in these states are as
rigorous as those in NJ/NV, or that the equipment has been subject to
randomness testing as thorough as that employed by GLI.
For me, it's "caveat emptor" -- My skepticism may be running rampant 
- H.
Of course, the discussion may be moot. I've seen no suggestion that
there's any "playable" vp in either state. In WV that's not
surprising given stiff casino taxation. I look for the same in PA for
the same reason.
Harry,
I understand your skepticism but it is almost certainly misplaced.
The distinguishing characteristic of a VLT is the accounting process.
Manufacturer, RNG characteristics, regulatory requirements, etc. are
irrelevant.
···
At 10:38 AM 5/17/2006, you wrote:
Bill Coleman wrote:
> Actually, this is not true. In those jurisdictions hands are dealt
> and drawn with every card having an equal chance of appearing.
> Whether the machine is a VLT or not refers to how the accounting (and
> often the ownership) is structured. VLT's can work like Nevada
> machines or they can work as they do in NY racinos and Wash Indian
> where they emulate scratch-off lottery tickets.Thanks for the clarification, Bill.
If I understand, in this case the VLT nomenclature is a little
misleading. One might interpret the "lottery" part to suggest a
mechanism that yields a predetermined result, and not just determines
the dealt cards centrally - as appear to be the case in DE/WV (vs. at
the machine, as in a NV compliant machine).This would explain the observation posted occasionally of a VLT that
doesn't have an "outcome correction" (genie/match card/etc.) and
suggests the gaming in the racinos is "fair".For myself, a certain degree of rare skepticism kicks in. I presume
that we're not talking about a mainstream vp manufacturer in the
racinos' equipment.I have my doubts that the gaming authorities in these states are as
rigorous as those in NJ/NV, or that the equipment has been subject to
randomness testing as thorough as that employed by GLI.For me, it's "caveat emptor" -- My skepticism may be running rampant
- H.
Of course, the discussion may be moot. I've seen no suggestion that
there's any "playable" vp in either state. In WV that's not
surprising given stiff casino taxation. I look for the same in PA for
the same reason.vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill Coleman wrote:
I understand your skepticism but it is almost certainly misplaced.
The distinguishing characteristic of a VLT is the accounting process.
Manufacturer, RNG characteristics, regulatory requirements, etc. are
irrelevant.
This statement puzzles me to some extent, but I'll withhold further
comment/questions until Linda Boyd has the opportunity to put in her 2
cents. I gather that she'll express a little more caution when it
comes to these games.
- H.
"I presume that we're not talking about a mainstream vp manufacturer
in the racinos' equipment."
Actually, I have seen older Bally GameMakers in Charles Town along
with a lot of other VP machines that I do not recognize.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
Bill Coleman wrote:
> Actually, this is not true. In those jurisdictions hands are
dealt
> and drawn with every card having an equal chance of appearing.
> Whether the machine is a VLT or not refers to how the accounting
(and
> often the ownership) is structured. VLT's can work like Nevada
> machines or they can work as they do in NY racinos and Wash
Indian
> where they emulate scratch-off lottery tickets.
Thanks for the clarification, Bill.
If I understand, in this case the VLT nomenclature is a little
misleading. One might interpret the "lottery" part to suggest a
mechanism that yields a predetermined result, and not just
determines
the dealt cards centrally - as appear to be the case in DE/WV (vs.
at
the machine, as in a NV compliant machine).
This would explain the observation posted occasionally of a VLT
that
doesn't have an "outcome correction" (genie/match card/etc.) and
suggests the gaming in the racinos is "fair".For myself, a certain degree of rare skepticism kicks in. I
presume
that we're not talking about a mainstream vp manufacturer in the
racinos' equipment.I have my doubts that the gaming authorities in these states are as
rigorous as those in NJ/NV, or that the equipment has been subject
to
randomness testing as thorough as that employed by GLI.
For me, it's "caveat emptor" -- My skepticism may be running
rampant
- H.
Of course, the discussion may be moot. I've seen no suggestion
that
there's any "playable" vp in either state. In WV that's not
surprising given stiff casino taxation. I look for the same in PA
for
···
the same reason.
I also apparently jumped to the wrong conclusion that the "Lottery" in "Video Lottery Terminal" implied non-RNG but a tie to a lottery-type game, such as bingo. Bill, please help straighten me out here. Perhaps we shouldn't be calling jurisdictions like Washington State "VLT" but something else - bingo-based? I'm a bit confused now. You're saying VLT only applies to accounting? Hmmm, now I'm lost.
Perhaps the game is still RNG based, but the "VLT" part applies to what happens *after* the redraw to cause a predetermined result....(?) That isn't what you mean by accounting, is it? I figure you mean actual accounting as in keeping the books, win/loss, coin-in, etc.
···
Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:
Harry,
I understand your skepticism but it is almost certainly misplaced.
The distinguishing characteristic of a VLT is the accounting process.
Manufacturer, RNG characteristics, regulatory requirements, etc. are
irrelevant.
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John Douglass wrote:
I also apparently jumped to the wrong conclusion that the "Lottery"
in "Video Lottery Terminal" implied non-RNG but a tie to a
lottery-type game, such as bingo. Bill, please help straighten me out
here. Perhaps we shouldn't be calling jurisdictions like Washington
State "VLT" but something else - bingo-based? I'm a bit confused now.
You're saying VLT only applies to accounting? Hmmm, now I'm lost.
Perhaps the game is still RNG based, but the "VLT" part applies to
what happens *after* the redraw to cause a predetermined
result....(?) That isn't what you mean by accounting, is it? I figure
you mean actual accounting as in keeping the books, win/loss,
coin-in, etc.
As I suggested, I'm a little at a loss with Bills "accounting" remark.
Re: Washington State, or machines in any other jurisdiction - no
question that there's a RNG at play here. The outcome of your play is
randomly determined, within certain parameters. This is why I phrase
my concern as to whether the outcome is an unbiased 52-card deal (or
whatever is appropriate for the game in question).
There's no question that the Indian casino gaming in WA is VLT based,
and not a bingo game. For that matter, any VLT game is a Class III
game under NIGC definition, which is not to say that they're LV
consistent gaming (which is why it's a poor phrasing in general to
question whether the gaming in any given casino is "Class III").
When you place a bet in a WA casino, a query goes out to a central
determanent system which returns a pre-determined win amount. This is
the reason for the "video lottery" designation. Think of it akin to a
scratch card.
Cards are dealt which, if properly chosen and drawn, will result in
that win. If you fail to pick the necessary cards for the draw, the
bonus match card (to the fifth card in your hand) will produce a match
and the win that results will tie to the win assigned by the central
system.
There's every reason to expect that the VLT itself contains a RNG.
It's possible that it may function by randomly selecting hands and
reselecting them until a combination of deal/draw cards is produced
that can result in the desired win.
The point is that the cards aren't randomly selected for the deal
consistent with how a standard deck of cards would randomly operate.
- Harry
When I refer to accounting I am in fact speaking about reporting
coin-in, coin-out and other bookkeeping stuff. This is actually the
part that is most closely regulated in all jurisdictions.
Since there seem to always be exceptions, I'll just repeat what at
least one manufacturer told me is their definition of a VLT - the
machine itself does not keep accounting records but is in constant
communication with the lottery server. If that link goes down, the
machine stops working.
In some cases the game functionality is also controlled from a
central server -- specifically Washington State Native and NY Racino
VP. Most other VLT jurisdictions leave the game functionality in the
RNG located in the machine itself.
Please do not confuse these machines with Class II ("Bingo-based")
machines found in Native casinos in some states. Washington and NY
Racino machines are based on scratch-off tickets where there are a
fixed number of tickets in each scratch-off game and all "tickets"
are distributed to machines before a new scratch-off game is started.
The payoff on teh ticket selected controls the machine payoff.
Class II servers are playing Bingo with each machine being played
having a Bingo card (usually but not always displayed on the machine
face). The Bingo games are played very, very fast and when you play
the machine the results of the Bingo game control the machine payoff.
The only thing relevant to the player is that VP games in these
jurisdictions do not randomly select cards with each card having an
equal chance to be picked. VP in all other jurisdictions do behave
like Nevada machines.
I hope this clears it up.
···
At 04:00 AM 5/18/2006, you wrote:
John Douglass wrote:
> I also apparently jumped to the wrong conclusion that the "Lottery"
> in "Video Lottery Terminal" implied non-RNG but a tie to a
> lottery-type game, such as bingo. Bill, please help straighten me out
> here. Perhaps we shouldn't be calling jurisdictions like Washington
> State "VLT" but something else - bingo-based? I'm a bit confused now.
> You're saying VLT only applies to accounting? Hmmm, now I'm lost.
>
> Perhaps the game is still RNG based, but the "VLT" part applies to
> what happens *after* the redraw to cause a predetermined
> result....(?) That isn't what you mean by accounting, is it? I figure
> you mean actual accounting as in keeping the books, win/loss,
> coin-in, etc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]