vpFREE2 Forums

Bad Tidings from the Palms

You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.

I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote:

Hmm that kinda fits the mindset of a lazy flea. I would rather hold a real equal paying job in the real world than to sit on my ass all day at a video poker machine worrying about the math, comps and whether the play would still be there the next day. Never mind that most full time players I meet are obese, smell, are very messy, rude and are anti social to the extreme sense. At least a fast food job is usually stable, provides benefits for full time employees and can lead to corporate careers paying a decent salary. There was a time and may still be opportunities for high stakes play but those people usually have something else going on besides playing VP all day.

I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@...> wrote:

You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.

I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.

If they are concerned with the smelly grinders, why not just cut CB to what Stations pays and eliminate the $1 10/7 and FPDW progressives?

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________________________________
From: Sai Sai <gofastnismo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 3:51 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

Im with Rob on this one. Its really pathetic to think that $8-12/hr is a good career move. Vp players do answer to someone and that's the casino which can pull the plug on their play at any time. If you think its okay to work a whole day at a vp machine just to fill your gas tank, more power to you. I strive for more in life. Better yet, you could make a lot more living on unemployment and working the system. Pathetic, I love how gamblers try to justify everything. I can even admit its ridiculous and Im as hardcore as they come. I moved to Vegas just for the nightlife and gambling. The difference is I know its not a good way to make a living and I like to take showers everyday. I play for entertainment.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@> wrote:
>
> Hmm that kinda fits the mindset of a lazy flea. I would rather hold a real equal paying job in the real world than to sit on my ass all day at a video poker machine worrying about the math, comps and whether the play would still be there the next day. Never mind that most full time players I meet are obese, smell, are very messy, rude and are anti social to the extreme sense. At least a fast food job is usually stable, provides benefits for full time employees and can lead to corporate careers paying a decent salary. There was a time and may still be opportunities for high stakes play but those people usually have something else going on besides playing VP all day.

You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.

I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For me the quandary is more complex. Making $8-$12 an hour playing VP is not the same as a regular job for identical wages. There is fluctuation and the bankroll requirement to survive the swings. Normal jobs don't require you to keep $15,000 lying around to get hired and stay hired.

Then you have the fact that most people who play something like FP .25c Deuces would not work a normal job for identical wages. This concerns me.

Now here's how it seems to me: Take an unattractive wage, add variance and uncertainty, and the potential for loss and suddenly you have people lining up to do it. (I believe the dynamic here is random variable positive reinforcement, which should be familiar to any student of Pavlovian responses & human conditioning.) All the science says that variable reward schedules are the best at manipulating people's motivational imperatives. $8 an hour is not as desirable to people as $8 and hour paid in random $250 & $1,000 chunks, as weird as that might seem.

Then it seems the more competition (which mathematically reduces the opportunity's attractiveness) the more attractive an opportunity appears to be to people. I imagine the logic here is, if there's a line, there must be "value" at the end of it.

I believe also in play is effort justification, which is a subset of cognitive dissonance, whereby people attribute more value to a result proportionate to how difficult it is to achieve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effort_justification

If you want to make a dance club seem more popular, the quickest way is to make the line go slower. No kidding, they really do this...deliberately! Don't be fooled.

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_____________________

The counter argument is that playing VP can be preferable to working a regular job, even if the wages are identical, or perhaps less. For those of you out there thinking this, I do not dispute that for YOU it is preferable. I ask only that you look very hard at why it is preferable, and make sure your reasons are sound. I hope you want to know that your reasons for preferring VP, aren't the result of casinos taking advantage of human perceptive weakness and variable reward conditioning.

Think what you will, but please at least think...and get some external opinions. People are NEVER aware of the own biases..."never!"

~FK

P.S. Please note that I am not criticizing anyone in the post. Only trying to make sure that everyone is making informed decisions.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote: I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.

(I believe the dynamic here is random variable positive reinforcement, which should be familiar to any student of Pavlovian responses & human conditioning.)

My dog agrees with you.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I"m not unmotivated. I play for fun. I really enjoy sitting down and playing for two or three hours while my wife watches and roots me on. I enjoy the drinks and the excitement that was the Palms. I booked a room for 3 nights there in two weeks. Now I'm thinking of going elsewhere. I have free rooms at the GN, but nothing positive to play there.
I'm a guy that they make money on even playing a positive machine. We'll eat there and play other games. Hey, I'm coming out there to have fun. I probably don't play fast enough to make the $8 per hour. I'm probably at $5. They are going to lose me and my hotel $$ and food $$ and gambling $$.
I guess I'll go over to Green Valley Ranch and play. I think that is the closest place that has FPDW.
Brad
Amarillo

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@> wrote:
> You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.
>
> I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.

Sam's Town.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@...> wrote:

I"m not unmotivated. I play for fun. I really enjoy sitting down and playing for two or three hours while my wife watches and roots me on. I enjoy the drinks and the excitement that was the Palms. I booked a room for 3 nights there in two weeks. Now I'm thinking of going elsewhere. I have free rooms at the GN, but nothing positive to play there.
I'm a guy that they make money on even playing a positive machine. We'll eat there and play other games. Hey, I'm coming out there to have fun. I probably don't play fast enough to make the $8 per hour. I'm probably at $5. They are going to lose me and my hotel $$ and food $$ and gambling $$.
I guess I'll go over to Green Valley Ranch and play. I think that is the closest place that has FPDW.
Brad
Amarillo

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
>
> I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@> wrote:
> > You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.
> >
> > I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.
>

Ok....... Sam's Town it is.
Why is it better than Green Valley Ranch?
Just wondering.
Thanks for all your help.
Brad
Amarillo

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

Sam's Town.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@> wrote:
>
> I"m not unmotivated. I play for fun. I really enjoy sitting down and playing for two or three hours while my wife watches and roots me on. I enjoy the drinks and the excitement that was the Palms. I booked a room for 3 nights there in two weeks. Now I'm thinking of going elsewhere. I have free rooms at the GN, but nothing positive to play there.
> I'm a guy that they make money on even playing a positive machine. We'll eat there and play other games. Hey, I'm coming out there to have fun. I probably don't play fast enough to make the $8 per hour. I'm probably at $5. They are going to lose me and my hotel $$ and food $$ and gambling $$.
> I guess I'll go over to Green Valley Ranch and play. I think that is the closest place that has FPDW.
> Brad
> Amarillo
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> >
> > I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@> wrote:
> > > You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.
> > >
> > > I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.
> >
>

Closer to the action I think, without looking it up. I've never been there but isn't GVR WAY south?

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@...> wrote:

Ok....... Sam's Town it is.
Why is it better than Green Valley Ranch?
Just wondering.
Thanks for all your help.
Brad
Amarillo

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> Sam's Town.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@> wrote:
> >
> > I"m not unmotivated. I play for fun. I really enjoy sitting down and playing for two or three hours while my wife watches and roots me on. I enjoy the drinks and the excitement that was the Palms. I booked a room for 3 nights there in two weeks. Now I'm thinking of going elsewhere. I have free rooms at the GN, but nothing positive to play there.
> > I'm a guy that they make money on even playing a positive machine. We'll eat there and play other games. Hey, I'm coming out there to have fun. I probably don't play fast enough to make the $8 per hour. I'm probably at $5. They are going to lose me and my hotel $$ and food $$ and gambling $$.
> > I guess I'll go over to Green Valley Ranch and play. I think that is the closest place that has FPDW.
> > Brad
> > Amarillo
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I look at full-time vp players--if there's really such a thing on quarters--as unmotivated people who really don't have a family life and who are very addicted to the poker machines. Making $8-$12/hr. is something I'd expect for teenagers and isn't anything anyone can make a decent living on. As a supplement it's fine, but there is no such thing as a vp career without playing at much higher limits.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derangedmutant040925" <derangedmutant040925@> wrote:
> > > > You forgot to mention that fulltime VP players are diseased, psychotic, children of felons, and that they killed Jesus. They are also responsible for global warming.
> > > >
> > > > I personally am able to fathom why someone might want to set their own hours, be their own boss, and have to answer to no one while earning $8-12/hr (depending on speed and accuracy) rather than explore the myriad exciting career opportunities available in the fast food industry while earning minimum wage. But that's just me.
> > >
> >
>

Frank wrote:

Now here's how it seems to me: Take an unattractive wage, add variance and uncertainty, and the potential for loss and suddenly you have people lining up to do it. (I believe the dynamic here is random variable positive reinforcement, which should be familiar to any student of Pavlovian responses & human conditioning.) All the science says that variable reward schedules are the best at manipulating people's motivational imperatives. $8 an hour is not as desirable to people as $8 and hour paid in random $250 & $1,000 chunks, as weird as that might seem.

Even though I believe that mathematically, fluctuation is bad for
business, I doubt I would prefer it if the casino canceled all my
fluctuation and sent me a check for my expected value. Gambling is
boring enough as it is, but if the possibility of big jackpots were
removed, it might be intolerable for me.

It is a hell of lot nicer to walk around GVR than Sams Town.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@...> wrote:

Ok....... Sam's Town it is.
Why is it better than Green Valley Ranch?
Just wondering.
Thanks for all your help.
Brad
Amarillo

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> Sam's Town.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bradr19" <briffel@> wrote:
> >
> > I"m not unmotivated. I play for fun. I really enjoy sitting down and playing for two or three hours while my wife watches and roots me on. I enjoy the drinks and the excitement that was the Palms. I booked a room for 3 nights there in two weeks. Now I'm thinking of going elsewhere. I have free rooms at the GN, but nothing positive to play there.
> > I'm a guy that they make money on even playing a positive machine. We'll eat there and play other games. Hey, I'm coming out there to have fun. I probably don't play fast enough to make the $8 per hour. I'm probably at $5. They are going to lose me and my hotel $$ and food $$ and gambling $$.
> > I guess I'll go over to Green Valley Ranch and play. I think that is the closest place that has FPDW.
> > Brad

Gambling is boring because too many people spend too much time doing it. When indulging a little at a time, each casino visit is eagerly anticipated, every credit won in any way is as interesting as the first credit won, and every session's result is as important as it was when you planned the casino visit.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, 007 <007@...> wrote:

Even though I believe that mathematically, fluctuation is bad for
business, I doubt I would prefer it if the casino canceled all my
fluctuation and sent me a check for my expected value. Gambling is
boring enough as it is, but if the possibility of big jackpots were
removed, it might be intolerable for me.

I was thinking the same thing. They both have good games that I like, probably Sams Town more for me, but Green Valley is pretty darn fancy. Very nice environment.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@...> wrote:

It is a hell of lot nicer to walk around GVR than Sams Town.

Top ten reasons to play FPDW for quarters:

1. no background or drug checks
2. no SSN required
3. no paycheck deductions
4. you can still collect unemployment and foodstamps
5. free drinking and smoking while on the job
6. social skills not required
7. no dress or hygiene code
8. rarely any heat because very minor impact on casino bottom line
9. reasonable kelly bankroll: 26/.01-$3250
10. free s.w.a.g.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

For me the quandary is more complex. Making $8-$12 an hour playing VP is not the same as a regular job for identical wages. There is fluctuation and the bankroll requirement to survive the swings. Normal jobs don't require you to keep $15,000 lying around to get hired and stay hired.

great for someone collecting social security as a hobby and get food comps for those whom are locals

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From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bad Tidings from the Palms

Top ten reasons to play FPDW for quarters:

1. no background or drug checks
2. no SSN required
3. no paycheck deductions
4. you can still collect unemployment and foodstamps
5. free drinking and smoking while on the job
6. social skills not required
7. no dress or hygiene code
8. rarely any heat because very minor impact on casino bottom line
9. reasonable kelly bankroll: 26/.01-$3250
10. free s.w.a.g.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

For me the quandary is more complex. Making $8-$12 an hour playing VP is not the same as a regular job for identical wages. There is fluctuation and the bankroll requirement to survive the swings. Normal jobs don't require you to keep $15,000 lying around to get hired and stay hired.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Free food. Hookers come to you. Never lose 30 grand chasing a car on some dopey "promotion".

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Top ten reasons to play FPDW for quarters:

1. no background or drug checks
2. no SSN required
3. no paycheck deductions
4. you can still collect unemployment and foodstamps
5. free drinking and smoking while on the job
6. social skills not required
7. no dress or hygiene code
8. rarely any heat because very minor impact on casino bottom line
9. reasonable kelly bankroll: 26/.01-$3250
10. free s.w.a.g.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> For me the quandary is more complex. Making $8-$12 an hour playing VP is not the same as a regular job for identical wages. There is fluctuation and the bankroll requirement to survive the swings. Normal jobs don't require you to keep $15,000 lying around to get hired and stay hired.

I got a request for the top reasons NOT to play FPDW for quarters, so here goes:

1. not willing to trade an hour of life for $12.50 or whatever the hourly EV is (everyone has a price for this trade, some will even pay out to "relieve the boredom of life"), also second hand smoke and siting for long periods is bad for future health, so you're actually giving up an hour of present life plus several hours of future life plus health costs for the hourly EV
2. can play or find better games for kelly bankroll growth
3. can play or find better games for comps and mailers
4. not enough "action", you're not the "grinder" type, more the Triple Double Bonus or Royal Deuces type
5. no respect for quarter FPDW players who are the scum of the earth, you aspire to be a well known high roller who rides in limos, drinks top shelf, stays in top floor suites, always buys into the WSOP just for fun and to be seen, and so on
6. tedious, repetitive, mindless, assembly line type work
7. high crime environment, someone could "stick it in your kidneys" and you can't sue because they are indigent (no bank account or job) or undocumented

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Top ten reasons to play FPDW for quarters:

1. no background or drug checks
2. no SSN required
3. no paycheck deductions
4. you can still collect unemployment and foodstamps
5. free drinking and smoking while on the job
6. social skills not required
7. no dress or hygiene code
8. rarely any heat because very minor impact on casino bottom line
9. reasonable kelly bankroll: 26/.01-$3250
10. free s.w.a.g.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> For me the quandary is more complex. Making $8-$12 an hour playing VP is not the same as a regular job for identical wages. There is fluctuation and the bankroll requirement to survive the swings. Normal jobs don't require you to keep $15,000 lying around to get hired and stay hired.