I checked them one day while there. No one was playing them, which was odd. I checked one machine & it was bad. A friend checked them the next day & said they were good. I'm convinced they changed them and changed them back. It would be too odd if several of our knowledgeable players all got it wrong at the same time.
Bad news at Silver Legacy/WRONG INFO " GOOD NEWS "
There is the possibility of some confusion. At the same corner near Virginia and Fourth St there are 2 different banks. The FP 2s have signage of DDB, and a progressive meter for DDB but they are multi games with the FP 2s. I checked 2 machines yesterday and they were FP.
There is a bank right next to that bank with 2s signage but those machines don't have FP.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, BeckSam <becksam@...> wrote:
I checked them one day while there. No one was playing them, which was odd. I checked one machine & it was bad. A friend checked them the next day & said they were good. I'm convinced they changed them and changed them back. It would be too odd if several of our knowledgeable players all got it wrong at the same time.
This is to confirm the findings. The bank that is parallel to Virginia Street has the FPDW machines. The bank that is perpendicular to Virigina Street has the bad machines. When you first enter the casino from that corner, you will see the bad machines. Turn your head right and there will be the FPDW machines.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "labum63" <labum63@...> wrote:
There is the possibility of some confusion. At the same corner near Virginia and Fourth St there are 2 different banks. The FP 2s have signage of DDB, and a progressive meter for DDB but they are multi games with the FP 2s. I checked 2 machines yesterday and they were FP.
There is a bank right next to that bank with 2s signage but those machines don't have FP.
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, BeckSam <becksam@> wrote:
>
> I checked them one day while there. No one was playing them, which was odd. I checked one machine & it was bad. A friend checked them the next day & said they were good. I'm convinced they changed them and changed them back. It would be too odd if several of our knowledgeable players all got it wrong at the same time.
>
Yeah, but that's the way it has always been set up.
Also, in responding to another poster, it is not unusual in the slightest that all 4 machines are empty on weekdays, especially in the AM. The "Deuces Wild" machines next to them always have sparse play at all hours, in my experience.
In any event I am glad the paytables were restored. Enjoy them while you can, they are clearly being looked at by management.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Lee" <jasonlee2you@...> wrote:
This is to confirm the findings. The bank that is parallel to Virginia Street has the FPDW machines. The bank that is perpendicular to Virigina Street has the bad machines. When you first enter the casino from that corner, you will see the bad machines. Turn your head right and there will be the FPDW machines.
> >
> > I checked them one day while there. No one was playing them, which was odd. I checked one machine & it was bad.
The last time I played the FP deuces , I called them Arctic Annies. They are right next to the door ,which when open blasts you with a sub freezing hurricane. Very uncomfortable to say the least ...accident ?
...best ...Tom
···
----- Original Message ----- From: "mike" <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:34 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Bad news at Silver Legacy/WRONG INFO " GOOD NEWS "
Yeah, but that's the way it has always been set up.
Also, in responding to another poster, it is not unusual in the slightest that all 4 machines are empty on weekdays, especially in the AM. The "Deuces Wild" machines next to them always have sparse play at all hours, in my experience.
In any event I am glad the paytables were restored. Enjoy them while you can, they are clearly being looked at by management.--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Lee" <jasonlee2you@...> wrote:
How about that huge noisy slot game on the other side of the doors?
Yep, the deuces are still there and full-pay. I usually confirm downgrade reports (just in case)... and there they were!
These games also seem to attract a large percentage of smokers among those playing (my experience), so the fresh air is ... well, kind of refreshing. I recall one chain-smoker who periodically punched the glass and cursed. Hope that wasn't one of you!
If I was the casino, I'd put them in the non-smoking area and surround them with Caveman Keno (max volume) 
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
The last time I played the FP deuces , I called them Arctic Annies. They are
right next to the door ,which when open blasts you with a sub freezing
hurricane. Very uncomfortable to say the least ...accident ?
...best ...Tom----- Original Message -----
From: "mike" <melbedewy1226@...>
To: <vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:34 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Bad news at Silver Legacy/WRONG INFO " GOOD NEWS
"> Yeah, but that's the way it has always been set up.
> Also, in responding to another poster, it is not unusual in the slightest
> that all 4 machines are empty on weekdays, especially in the AM. The
> "Deuces Wild" machines next to them always have sparse play at all hours,
> in my experience.
> In any event I am glad the paytables were restored. Enjoy them while you
> can, they are clearly being looked at by management.
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Lee" <jasonlee2you@> wrote:
>>
>>
If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
Circus just upgraded some of their machines to 100%+ payback - why? I know they seem to be hurting for revenue, but to increase your revenue while increasing your losses even more is not a viable for-profit business.
Along this line of uncomprehension, why not have more progressives? With base games in the 99%+ and a .1%+ progressive meter - evertbody can win. The machines will make money for the casino because the base game + the meter draw will still make the games positive for the casino. Plus, progressive jackpots - especially when they grow large attract more play (and more of a return for those who play).
Perhaps this is more of a philisophical twist, but if anyone knows I would like to understand and any additional thoughts would be interesting as well.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "twowild4" <lucky4K@...> wrote:
These games also seem to attract a large percentage of smokers among those playing (my experience), so the fresh air is ... well, kind of refreshing. I recall one chain-smoker who periodically punched the glass and cursed. Hope that wasn't one of you!
If I was the casino, I'd put them in the non-smoking area and surround them with Caveman Keno (max volume)
You would't-and they don't.
Just because a VP machine returns over 100% with computer perfect play doesn't mean the casinos will pay lose money-men are not computers that can play perfectly. Those machines don't lose any significant money or they would be gone. I was told by a manager at the Gold Coast that their FPDW machines, even after comps, "broke even".
Plus don't forget they draw in people who will eat, shop, sports bet, go to shows, etc.
More importantly, they will draw players wives, family and friends who are likely to play games more profitable to the casinos. Plus those people will eat, shop, etc.-and draw their own circles of family and friends.
Of course when casinos get a little greedy and see a FPDW or 10/7 DDB bank returning "zero" profit they get shortsighted and yank them as the Gold Coast and too many others have done over the years.
Quarter single line "positive" games do nothing but make the casino money-though they are sometimes not bright enough to see the big picture. Of course one thing you will NEVER see is 50 or 100 play positive machines because those ARE machines that would cost the casino- dearly.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@...> wrote:
If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money?
Before anybody gives me a whack I meant to say 10-7 DB.
If you know of any 10-7 DDB let us know. Please.
LOL.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
>
> If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money?You would't-and they don't.
Just because a VP machine returns over 100% with computer perfect play doesn't mean the casinos will pay lose money-men are not computers that can play perfectly. Those machines don't lose any significant money or they would be gone. I was told by a manager at the Gold Coast that their FPDW machines, even after comps, "broke even".
Plus don't forget they draw in people who will eat, shop, sports bet, go to shows, etc.
More importantly, they will draw players wives, family and friends who are likely to play games more profitable to the casinos. Plus those people will eat, shop, etc.-and draw their own circles of family and friends.
Of course when casinos get a little greedy and see a FPDW or 10/7 DDB bank returning "zero" profit they get shortsighted and yank them as the Gold Coast and too many others have done over the years.
Quarter single line "positive" games do nothing but make the casino money-though they are sometimes not bright enough to see the big picture. Of course one thing you will NEVER see is 50 or 100 play positive machines because those ARE machines that would cost the casino- dearly.
Truthfully, the percentage of people who can play "full pay" games 100% PERFECTLY is VERY small...the people who usually play them, still are giving up a percentage to the casino...so if you go and tell someone else "Silver Legacy is great, they have full pay video poker!" That other person is going to go to Silver Legacy and plop down at any given video poker machine and start playing "because they heard SL has full pay video poker."
Believe me, "full pay" machines don't hurt casinos...why do you think JANugget has nothing BUT full pay (well, let me say 90%)
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@...> wrote:
If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
I get the marketing aspect and agree, but Atlantis is a good example - most of their 100%+ games are advertised, but SL doesn't advertise their 100%+ games (at least not the deuces and ddb - I can't recall about the other 100%+ games).
Perhaps this is an indication of management skill as to why the Atlantis is healthy and SL may become bank owned, but that is a different topic.
It is not that SL doesn't advertise their full-pay games - they do a pretty good job of this throughout the casino, so they specifically keep the 100%+ full pay machines unadvertised. So marketing isn't the reason they have them. Without advertising, the only people who are going to actively seek out the 100%+ games are people enriched for those that play near perfection as these will be savvy players. These players are monitored closely and cut-off if they win, which if a significant number of hands are played they will.
From a players perspective though, if a significant number of hands are not played the return % of the game's paytable becomes inconsequential because the volatility/variance is the ruling factor.
As for the 100%+ games bringing families and friends into the casino mentioned on an earlier reply, I would really like to know if this is true. It doesn't seem that it is because these games would be advertised if they were helping to do this for the casino. Also, the few people who really play these games where the 100%+ paytable seems important, that total number of players/friends/family seems so small as to be inconsequential in terms of gain/loss or just bodies in the building.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:
Truthfully, the percentage of people who can play "full pay" games 100% PERFECTLY is VERY small...the people who usually play them, still are giving up a percentage to the casino...so if you go and tell someone else "Silver Legacy is great, they have full pay video poker!" That other person is going to go to Silver Legacy and plop down at any given video poker machine and start playing "because they heard SL has full pay video poker."
Believe me, "full pay" machines don't hurt casinos...why do you think JANugget has nothing BUT full pay (well, let me say 90%)--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
>
> If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
>
In my highly unscientific experience, my friends go where I go,
and when I go. They start off playing VP (poorly) with me and
then drift to the slots. Casinos forget about the Dancer effect.
South Point knows the reality of winners and advantage
players bringing in more action than the 1% they eke out.
···
--- On Sat, 3/31/12, armchairpresident <smellypuppy@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: armchairpresident <smellypuppy@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE_Reno] Re: Silver Legacy and other casinos w/100%+ games
To: vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 31, 2012, 8:38 AM
I get the marketing aspect and agree, but Atlantis is a good example - most of their 100%+ games are advertised, but SL doesn't advertise their 100%+ games (at least not the deuces and ddb - I can't recall about the other 100%+ games).
Perhaps this is an indication of management skill as to why the Atlantis is healthy and SL may become bank owned, but that is a different topic.
It is not that SL doesn't advertise their full-pay games - they do a pretty good job of this throughout the casino, so they specifically keep the 100%+ full pay machines unadvertised. So marketing isn't the reason they have them. Without advertising, the only people who are going to actively seek out the 100%+ games are people enriched for those that play near perfection as these will be savvy players. These players are monitored closely and cut-off if they win, which if a significant number of hands are played they will.
From a players perspective though, if a significant number of hands are not played the return % of the game's paytable becomes inconsequential because the volatility/variance is the ruling factor.
As for the 100%+ games bringing families and friends into the casino mentioned on an earlier reply, I would really like to know if this is true. It doesn't seem that it is because these games would be advertised if they were helping to do this for the casino. Also, the few people who really play these games where the 100%+ paytable seems important, that total number of players/friends/family seems so small as to be inconsequential in terms of gain/loss or just bodies in the building.
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:
Truthfully, the percentage of people who can play "full pay" games 100% PERFECTLY is VERY small...the people who usually play them, still are giving up a percentage to the casino...so if you go and tell someone else "Silver Legacy is great, they have full pay video poker!" That other person is going to go to Silver Legacy and plop down at any given video poker machine and start playing "because they heard SL has full pay video poker."
Believe me, "full pay" machines don't hurt casinos...why do you think JANugget has nothing BUT full pay (well, let me say 90%)--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
>
> If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DDB is not a 100% game (the 10/6/40 variety is close, though).
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@...> wrote:
I get the marketing aspect and agree, but Atlantis is a good example - most of their 100%+ games are advertised, but SL doesn't advertise their 100%+ games (at least not the deuces and ddb - I can't recall about the other 100%+ games).
Perhaps this is an indication of management skill as to why the Atlantis is healthy and SL may become bank owned, but that is a different topic.
It is not that SL doesn't advertise their full-pay games - they do a pretty good job of this throughout the casino, so they specifically keep the 100%+ full pay machines unadvertised. So marketing isn't the reason they have them. Without advertising, the only people who are going to actively seek out the 100%+ games are people enriched for those that play near perfection as these will be savvy players. These players are monitored closely and cut-off if they win, which if a significant number of hands are played they will.
From a players perspective though, if a significant number of hands are not played the return % of the game's paytable becomes inconsequential because the volatility/variance is the ruling factor.
As for the 100%+ games bringing families and friends into the casino mentioned on an earlier reply, I would really like to know if this is true. It doesn't seem that it is because these games would be advertised if they were helping to do this for the casino. Also, the few people who really play these games where the 100%+ paytable seems important, that total number of players/friends/family seems so small as to be inconsequential in terms of gain/loss or just bodies in the building.
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@> wrote:
>
> Truthfully, the percentage of people who can play "full pay" games 100% PERFECTLY is VERY small...the people who usually play them, still are giving up a percentage to the casino...so if you go and tell someone else "Silver Legacy is great, they have full pay video poker!" That other person is going to go to Silver Legacy and plop down at any given video poker machine and start playing "because they heard SL has full pay video poker."
> Believe me, "full pay" machines don't hurt casinos...why do you think JANugget has nothing BUT full pay (well, let me say 90%)
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
> >
> > If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
> >
>
I wanted to make sure we are talking about the same machines 2 upright 5 cent 100 coin machines for ddb? They were listed in VP free as location unknown? I didn't play them, but when I saw them when I was in there a few months ago and I thought they were 50/10/6. I was looking closely at the paytables at the time, but this is all from a memeory several months ago. I don't remember where they were, but I vaguely recall they were on the North side of the casino. I don't play there anymore, just there sometimes placing bets on college football/basketball and was looking it over at the time. Forgot to report the location.
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Cranky" <exgeek@...> wrote:
DDB is not a 100% game (the 10/6/40 variety is close, though).
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
>
> I get the marketing aspect and agree, but Atlantis is a good example - most of their 100%+ games are advertised, but SL doesn't advertise their 100%+ games (at least not the deuces and ddb - I can't recall about the other 100%+ games).
>
> Perhaps this is an indication of management skill as to why the Atlantis is healthy and SL may become bank owned, but that is a different topic.
>
> It is not that SL doesn't advertise their full-pay games - they do a pretty good job of this throughout the casino, so they specifically keep the 100%+ full pay machines unadvertised. So marketing isn't the reason they have them. Without advertising, the only people who are going to actively seek out the 100%+ games are people enriched for those that play near perfection as these will be savvy players. These players are monitored closely and cut-off if they win, which if a significant number of hands are played they will.
>
> From a players perspective though, if a significant number of hands are not played the return % of the game's paytable becomes inconsequential because the volatility/variance is the ruling factor.
>
> As for the 100%+ games bringing families and friends into the casino mentioned on an earlier reply, I would really like to know if this is true. It doesn't seem that it is because these games would be advertised if they were helping to do this for the casino. Also, the few people who really play these games where the 100%+ paytable seems important, that total number of players/friends/family seems so small as to be inconsequential in terms of gain/loss or just bodies in the building.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@> wrote:
> >
> > Truthfully, the percentage of people who can play "full pay" games 100% PERFECTLY is VERY small...the people who usually play them, still are giving up a percentage to the casino...so if you go and tell someone else "Silver Legacy is great, they have full pay video poker!" That other person is going to go to Silver Legacy and plop down at any given video poker machine and start playing "because they heard SL has full pay video poker."
> > Believe me, "full pay" machines don't hurt casinos...why do you think JANugget has nothing BUT full pay (well, let me say 90%)
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "armchairpresident" <smellypuppy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If you were a for-profit casino why would you have games that lose you money? Why do the casinos have them at all? They do not have slots or table games that are set to over 100% payback.
> > >
> >
>
Las Vegas has a boatload of 100.07% DDB machines. Sam's Town and Palace Station to name only 2 places but there are many more.
The paytable is 1-1-3-4-6-10-50-80-160-160-400-50-800
···
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Cranky" <exgeek@...> wrote:
DDB is not a 100% game (the 10/6/40 variety is close, though).