vpFREE2 Forums

Atlantis Reno update for Jun 2007

#1

The game "Pick-A-Pair" has been added to the 8 uprights along the wall
opposite the high limit entrance. These machines also double as
tournament machines mid-week. The game has a different paytable:
2-3-5-11-15-18-100-200-200(10,000). Note that quads pay 100 vs 120,
but the RF is 10000. I get the payout at 99.35%, vol of 21.4%. With
their comps at .6%, this just barely breaks 100%.

Also, the players club has had a minor change. There seems to be far
fewer Platinum and Diamond players since they reset all points to zero
on Jun 1. (The slot club runs Jun 1 to May 31.)

The tier levels are still 2000 for Gold Elite ($80,000 coin in); and
15,000 for Platinum ($600,000 coin in); and 30,000 points for Diamond,
but they have added a second level to the Gold Elite. Now at 5000
points, they have "High Gold". Privileges include reserved parking
and increased offers, greater freeplay. Many of the Platinum level
privileges will be provided by the hosts at their discretion
(preferred concert seating, quaranteed room reservations).

They have also begun the construction of the new skybridge, that will
span Peckam lane to the Reno Convention Center. Hope that is
non-smoking as well.

#2

I do not understand about the "resetting of slot club points"..If
they reset them to zero for everyone - than NO ONE would be Platinum
or Diamond on June 1st. Everyone would start out at 0 and their
play even 2 days before would not matter on status.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@...> wrote:

The game "Pick-A-Pair" has been added to the 8 uprights along the

wall

opposite the high limit entrance. These machines also double as
tournament machines mid-week. The game has a different paytable:
2-3-5-11-15-18-100-200-200(10,000). Note that quads pay 100 vs

120,

but the RF is 10000. I get the payout at 99.35%, vol of 21.4%.

With

their comps at .6%, this just barely breaks 100%.

Also, the players club has had a minor change. There seems to be

far

fewer Platinum and Diamond players since they reset all points to

zero

on Jun 1. (The slot club runs Jun 1 to May 31.)

The tier levels are still 2000 for Gold Elite ($80,000 coin in);

and

15,000 for Platinum ($600,000 coin in); and 30,000 points for

Diamond,

but they have added a second level to the Gold Elite. Now at 5000
points, they have "High Gold". Privileges include reserved parking
and increased offers, greater freeplay. Many of the Platinum level
privileges will be provided by the hosts at their discretion
(preferred concert seating, quaranteed room reservations).

They have also begun the construction of the new skybridge, that

will

···

span Peckam lane to the Reno Convention Center. Hope that is
non-smoking as well.

#3

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "gamblinggrandma"
<gamblinggrandma@...> wrote:

I do not understand about the "resetting of slot club points"..If
they reset them to zero for everyone - than NO ONE would be Platinum
or Diamond on June 1st. Everyone would start out at 0 and their
play even 2 days before would not matter on status.

Atlantis runs the slot club from Jun 1 to Jun 1, during which points
are accumulated at $40 per point. During the slot-year, a player can
go up in a level, but not down. On Jun 1, the points are all reset to
zero. Any player not accumulating the proper number of points for
their level, is reset to the lower level.

For instance: a new player gets a player card and starts earning
points, and upon hitting 2000 points, or $80,000 coin in, they are
upgraded to Gold Elite. At 15,000 points, they make the Platinum
level. On Jun 1, the players points expire, and they are now at zero
points. They are still a Platinum level player until next Jun 1.
They must make another 15,000 points before the next Jun 1. If this
player only plays to 4000 points in that slot-year, they are
downgraded to Gold. If they dont play at all, they are downgraded to
basic status.

This reset does not affect the earned comps, which are still in the
bank, and expire 18 months after being earned.

There are other slot club levels above Platinum: Diamond (30,000
points, or $1.2Million) and Black Diamond (totally discretionary and
honorary level awarded mostly to visiting celebs, and those gamblers
listed in "The Book")

#4

Thanks, William, for a post loaded with good information. I
particularly think that the Club Paradise tier stucture info is
helpful and of great value!

Very nice of you to take the time to post.

~Babe~

···

=========================================================
In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari" <wcanevari wrote:
..........Also, the players club has had a minor change. There seems
to be farfewer Platinum and Diamond players since they reset all
points to zero on Jun 1. (The slot club runs Jun 1 to May 31.)........

#5

It's my understanding, from my Atlantis host, that if you reach a
new tier level prior to June 1, 2007, you remain at that level until
June 1, 2008. On June 1, 2008, if you have once again earned the
number of points necessary for that tier level (between June 1, 2007
and May 31, 2007) you will again have that tier designation.

What is taken away is the POINTS from the prior year. Not the tier
level. Each June 1st, you must start over, and earn the number of
points required for your tier level, for the FOLLOWING year.

I hope that this explanation makes their system more understandable.

~Babe~

···

=============================================================
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "gamblinggrandma" wrote:

I do not understand about the "resetting of slot club points"..If
they reset them to zero for everyone - than NO ONE would be Platinum
or Diamond on June 1st. Everyone would start out at 0 and their
play even 2 days before would not matter on status.

#6

Thank You for clarifying this. I really appreciate it.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "gamblinggrandma"
<gamblinggrandma@> wrote:
>
> I do not understand about the "resetting of slot club

points"..If

> they reset them to zero for everyone - than NO ONE would be

Platinum

> or Diamond on June 1st. Everyone would start out at 0 and their
> play even 2 days before would not matter on status.
>

Atlantis runs the slot club from Jun 1 to Jun 1, during which

points

are accumulated at $40 per point. During the slot-year, a player

can

go up in a level, but not down. On Jun 1, the points are all

reset to

zero. Any player not accumulating the proper number of points for
their level, is reset to the lower level.

For instance: a new player gets a player card and starts earning
points, and upon hitting 2000 points, or $80,000 coin in, they are
upgraded to Gold Elite. At 15,000 points, they make the Platinum
level. On Jun 1, the players points expire, and they are now at

zero

points. They are still a Platinum level player until next Jun 1.
They must make another 15,000 points before the next Jun 1. If

this

player only plays to 4000 points in that slot-year, they are
downgraded to Gold. If they dont play at all, they are downgraded

to

basic status.

This reset does not affect the earned comps, which are still in the
bank, and expire 18 months after being earned.

There are other slot club levels above Platinum: Diamond (30,000
points, or $1.2Million) and Black Diamond (totally discretionary

and

honorary level awarded mostly to visiting celebs, and those

gamblers

···

listed in "The Book")

#7

Hi William,

I read with great interest your posts about the Atlantis. Thank you for
providing such information. I am new to both Reno and the VP world and I had
a couple of questions for you:

"Coin-in" - what you mean is, if, say, I put $1 into a machine, play a $1
game and win $1, and play the $1 game again, the "coin-in" would be $2
correct?

".6% comps" - how did you determine this? I have asked all of the Paradise
Club members how much I have in comps and they would never tell me, citing
company policy. Also, is the .6% across the board, whether you're playing
video Keno (and getting low pay back) or you're playing NSUD?

Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

Jason

···

On 6/24/07, William Canevari <wcanevari@yahoo.com> wrote:

  The game "Pick-A-Pair" has been added to the 8 uprights along the wall
opposite the high limit entrance. These machines also double as
tournament machines mid-week. The game has a different paytable:
2-3-5-11-15-18-100-200-200(10,000). Note that quads pay 100 vs 120,
but the RF is 10000. I get the payout at 99.35%, vol of 21.4%. With
their comps at .6%, this just barely breaks 100%.

Also, the players club has had a minor change. There seems to be far
fewer Platinum and Diamond players since they reset all points to zero
on Jun 1. (The slot club runs Jun 1 to May 31.)

The tier levels are still 2000 for Gold Elite ($80,000 coin in); and
15,000 for Platinum ($600,000 coin in); and 30,000 points for Diamond,
but they have added a second level to the Gold Elite. Now at 5000
points, they have "High Gold". Privileges include reserved parking
and increased offers, greater freeplay. Many of the Platinum level
privileges will be provided by the hosts at their discretion
(preferred concert seating, quaranteed room reservations).

They have also begun the construction of the new skybridge, that will
span Peckam lane to the Reno Convention Center. Hope that is
non-smoking as well.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Jason, I'd like to answer if I may. Your post is a nice reminder to
veterans that even the most basic concepts can be foreign to new
players and need to be periodically explained.

Your coin-in is how much money you put into play in attempting to
win. For instance, if you are playing quarters and betting $1.25 a
hand and play 100 hands, your coin-in is 100 X $1.25 or $125. Your
wins are part of coin-out.

Comp rate is comp dollars earned / coin-in. In William's
example, .6% comps means that if his coin-in was $100, then he would
earn .60 cents worth of comps ($100 X .006). Pretty stingy huh?
But that's about par for the course.

Fortunately not all slot clubs are secretive like Atlantis and
Peppermill. Silver Legacy has a very transparent system where
kiosks provide up to the moment information on comp account
valuations. And, because their VP machines also tell you your daily
running point total when you insert your card, it's a simple matter
to calculate a comp rate because SL awards one point for every $20
coin-in on VP.

As for different games, yes, the comp rate will usually vary.
Generally, if you play games like video keno or slot machines, you
will earn more comps per dollar played (usually twice as much)
because these games make more money for the casino than full pay
versions of VP.

There might be further information on these concepts (and other
basic information) in the FAQ section on the home page.

Best of luck!

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@...>
wrote:

Hi William,

I read with great interest your posts about the Atlantis. Thank

you for

providing such information. I am new to both Reno and the VP world

and I had

a couple of questions for you:

"Coin-in" - what you mean is, if, say, I put $1 into a machine,

play a $1

game and win $1, and play the $1 game again, the "coin-in" would

be $2

correct?

".6% comps" - how did you determine this? I have asked all of the

Paradise

Club members how much I have in comps and they would never tell

me, citing

company policy. Also, is the .6% across the board, whether you're

playing

video Keno (and getting low pay back) or you're playing NSUD?

Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

Jason

>
> The game "Pick-A-Pair" has been added to the 8 uprights along

the wall

> opposite the high limit entrance. These machines also double as
> tournament machines mid-week. The game has a different paytable:
> 2-3-5-11-15-18-100-200-200(10,000). Note that quads pay 100 vs

120,

> but the RF is 10000. I get the payout at 99.35%, vol of 21.4%.

With

> their comps at .6%, this just barely breaks 100%.
>
> Also, the players club has had a minor change. There seems to be

far

> fewer Platinum and Diamond players since they reset all points

to zero

> on Jun 1. (The slot club runs Jun 1 to May 31.)
>
> The tier levels are still 2000 for Gold Elite ($80,000 coin in);

and

> 15,000 for Platinum ($600,000 coin in); and 30,000 points for

Diamond,

> but they have added a second level to the Gold Elite. Now at 5000
> points, they have "High Gold". Privileges include reserved

parking

> and increased offers, greater freeplay. Many of the Platinum

level

> privileges will be provided by the hosts at their discretion
> (preferred concert seating, quaranteed room reservations).
>
> They have also begun the construction of the new skybridge, that

will

···

On 6/24/07, William Canevari <wcanevari@...> wrote:
> span Peckam lane to the Reno Convention Center. Hope that is
> non-smoking as well.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@...>
wrote:

".6% comps" - how did you determine this? I have asked all of the

Paradise

Club members how much I have in comps and they would never tell me,

citing

company policy. Also, is the .6% across the board, whether you're

playing

video Keno (and getting low pay back) or you're playing NSUD?

Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

Jason

The VP Free data base for the Atlantis lists the comps as .6%, or $6
per $1000 coin in. I verified this when I first started playing here.
When you place your card in the card reader on any machine, you can
check your points, but not your comp balance. By counting hands and
coin-in, and periodically checking the points earned, I was able to
verify the $40 per point.

Also, when I had earned 100 points, ($4000 coin-in and $24 in comps) I
went to the comp desk and asked for a comp for $30 for the buffet.
They replied that I did not have enough earned comp balance yet. I
played another $900, and they still said I was short of the $30.00. I
played a little more, and then they said I qualified. I kept a
running total of comps used for awhile, and found that the $6 per
thousand comp rate held fast. Kind of a sneaky way to check out the
rate, but since they have a "Dont Ask, Dont Tell" policy, I needed to
be a little more inventive. I know of only one game in the Atlantis
where you do not earn comps and cannot use your freeplay: that is the
Megabucks.

Other casinos, such at JA Nugget, give you your balance everytime you
place your card in the card reader. JA Nugget also has the best comp
rate, .75% or $7.50 per thousand coin in for VP, and $10 per thousand
for slots.

BTW, since the IGT Game King 6.0 and newer machines reseed the RNG
every 100 hands, (with that annoying 1 second pause), you can count
your hands just by keeping track of the number of reseeding pauses
during your play.

#10

William-

Can you explain the "reseeding" process in a little more detail? I
guess this is a matter of the random number generator reseting
itself at each 100 hands? What kind of "pause" am I looking for?

Thanks,
Moe

PS- I don't know if you saw it, but at the last Wildcard Weekend
drawing for the Condo (6/22), your name scrolled by on the big
screen. Not a winner, but it was kinda cool to see a familiar name.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@...> wrote:

···

BTW, since the IGT Game King 6.0 and newer machines reseed the RNG
every 100 hands, (with that annoying 1 second pause), you can count
your hands just by keeping track of the number of reseeding pauses
during your play.

#11

William-

Can you explain the "reseeding" process in a little more detail? I
guess this is a matter of the random number generator reseting
itself at each 100 hands? What kind of "pause" am I looking for?

Thanks,
Moe

PS- I don't know if you saw it, but at the last Wildcard Weekend
drawing for the Condo (6/22), your name scrolled by on the big
screen. Not a winner, but it was kinda cool to see a familiar name.

Yeah, I did see my name, and my wife's scroll by.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@> wrote:
>
> BTW, since the IGT Game King 6.0 and newer machines reseed the RNG
> every 100 hands, (with that annoying 1 second pause), you can count
> your hands just by keeping track of the number of reseeding pauses
> during your play.
>

There are many other members of this group that are more highly
qualified than me to explain how RNGs work. There are also many many
posts on this in the VPFree groups.

To make the explanation short and sweet: The RNG, Random Number
Generator, needs a starting point (seed) from which to start its
number generation operation. The most common is the current time.
There are other possible values to use for a seed, including the last
time the cover was opened, time interval between hands, total credits
wagered or paid, etc.

In the 80s and 90s, the RNGs, once started, ran forever on the initial
seed. Since the RNGs are not perfect, and are really psuedo-random
number generators, this would result in frequent patterns. Patterns
that were either highly advantagous to the player (quad after quad),
or to the casino (garbage after garbage).

There is a famous incident of an alert player beating the electronic
Keno game at a casino, because he recognized that the same numbers
were chosen every morning for the first game. Seems the Keno computer
was auto-started at the same time every morning, thus using the same
seed, and generating the same 20 numbers.

In order to minimize the patterns, and increase randomness, IGT made
two changes to the chip. One was in how the cards were dealt,
continuous shuffling after the deal vs parallel dealing; and reseeding
the RNG every 100 hands. When you are playing a newer IGT machine,
you will notice this reseeding. When the deal button is pressed, the
cards ordinarily deal instantly, however, when the reseed is due, the
deal starts with all 5 cards showing only the backs, with a 1 second
pause, then the cards are shown. Since this happens every 100 hands,
it is an easy way to keep track of your played hands.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "moelevens" <moelevens@...> wrote:

#12

In Atlantis, you have the advantage of knowing at the machine how many
points you earned; the same cannot be said for Peppermill. Being able
to confirm your action or coin-in allows for more accurate studies.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@...> wrote:

Fortunately not all slot clubs are secretive like Atlantis and
Peppermill.

#13

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@>
wrote:
> ".6% comps" - how did you determine this? I have asked all of the
Paradise
> Club members how much I have in comps and they would never tell

me,

citing
> company policy. Also, is the .6% across the board, whether you're
playing
> video Keno (and getting low pay back) or you're playing NSUD?
>
> Thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.
>
> Jason
>

The VP Free data base for the Atlantis lists the comps as .6%, or

$6

per $1000 coin in. I verified this when I first started playing

here.

When you place your card in the card reader on any machine, you

can

check your points, but not your comp balance. By counting hands and
coin-in, and periodically checking the points earned, I was able to
verify the $40 per point.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

William , i earned 463 points the last 4 days at atlantis so if my
math is right, thats 185k in coin in & $1,110 in comps earned?

M J

#14

> Fortunately not all slot clubs are secretive like Atlantis and
> Peppermill.

In Atlantis, you have the advantage of knowing at the machine how

many

points you earned; the same cannot be said for Peppermill. Being

able

to confirm your action or coin-in allows for more accurate studies.

I asked if I had any comps at the Peppermill while playing high-limit
blackjack and the pit boss was more than happy to tell me the exact
dollar amount without having to be prompted to do so (I just
said, "Do I have any comps?"). I couldn't beg it out of the Atlantis
Paradise Club counter woman.

I guess its just a mixed bag.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "fordscks" <jason_c_vp@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@> wrote:

#15

$40 per point MJ, not $400. I'm guessing "typo" on the calculator.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@...> wrote:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

William , i earned 463 points the last 4 days at atlantis so if my
math is right, thats 185k in coin in & $1,110 in comps earned?

M J

#16

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nemesissoft.rm" <jpawloski@...>
wrote:

I asked if I had any comps at the Peppermill while playing high-

limit

blackjack and the pit boss was more than happy to tell me the exact
dollar amount without having to be prompted to do so (I just
said, "Do I have any comps?"). I couldn't beg it out of the Atlantis
Paradise Club counter woman.

I guess its just a mixed bag.

Atlantis and Peppermill are both tough, but Atlantis is tougher. Word
is Atlantis employees have been warned that they could be fired for
disclosing comp acct. balances, so that got their attention!

At the Peppermill, the booth will usually not supply account
information. Some will even give false information rather than say
they can't answer, so forget about asking here. I've had a little
more luck with the VIP staff and a much easier time with the hosts.
Nevertheless, Peppermill clearly considers this privileged
information, so don't push it. A good time to gingerly inquire (for
visitors) is at check out if you have room charges that need to be
comped. Then you're all set for your next visit.

Balance information is more important at the Peppermill because your
comps and points are always being adjusted on a running 12 month
cycle, so you never know exactly where you stand. Fortunately, you
can get a fair amount of leeway if you drift into "the red", but a
negative balance will have to be paid off before you can go "positive."

I just don't understand why these two casinos won't upgrade their
clubs and end the secrecy. Well ... I can kind of understand
Peppermill (vanishing comps), but Atlantis ...

#17

Actually, you are high by a factor of 10. Your coin in is $18K and
your comps are $111.

When you get 2000 points, and make the gold elite level, you will get
an assigned host. Sometimes, if you are the host's office, the door
is closed, and you are wearing your lucky shirt, you can discuss your
account with the host: total coin-in, win/loss amounts, and your comp
balance. They are in danger of being disciplined if they disclose the
balance of your comp account.

At Atlantis, The Falahi family (Ben and Bob) feel that if you knew the
amount you had earned, you would use it ALL. By keeping it secret,
you are more likely to leave a balance on the books, to expire after
18 months.

At JA Nugget, the machines tell you your account balance every time
you insert your card. John Asquaga feels that you will gamble more to
earn comps for that buffet.

I do have one trick for checking my balance at Atlantis, that I will
share with the group. To use a comps at Atlantis, you can either
charge a restaurant check to your room, or go to the Paradise Club
booth and get a comp slip. The clerk will check your account and
issue you a comp slip for the restaurant and amount you request. If
the slip is not used, it expires in 7 days, and the money is back in
your account.

I ask for a comp for $250 for the steakhouse, for a group of 4,
knowing my balance is less than that. The clerk will then say, "I can
do $150.00". I counter for $200. They stick with $150.00. Then I
decline the comp, and make a note of our current points and approx
comps.

If you are really inventive, you can use my alternative technique.
First you need a mirror the size of your player card. When you are at
the booth, the computer monitor is under glass on the countertop, but
slanted so you cannot see it. By holding your player card with the
mirror on the back, you can look at the screen while the clerk is
accessing your account. It helps to have more a fistful of cards or
brochures to help hide the mirror from the clerk.

One I have not tried yet, is to place a cell phone, camera lens down
on the glass, and take a picture discretely of the screen. Be sure to
disable the flash and the click noise first.

The screen also contains other good information: average bet,
highest/lowest wager, game type played, total win/loss, etc.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@...> wrote:

William , i earned 463 points the last 4 days at atlantis so if my
math is right, thats 185k in coin in & $1,110 in comps earned?

M J

#18

worse, typo on pencil

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24" <mklpryy24@> wrote:
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> William , i earned 463 points the last 4 days at atlantis so if my
> math is right, thats 185k in coin in & $1,110 in comps earned?
>
> M J
>

$40 per point MJ, not $400. I'm guessing "typo" on the calculator.

#19

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "mklpryy24"
<mklpryy24@...> wrote:
>
>
> William , i earned 463 points the last 4 days at
atlantis so if my
> math is right, thats 185k in coin in & $1,110 in
comps earned?
>
> M J
>

Actually, you are high by a factor of 10. Your coin
in is $18K and
your comps are $111.

···

--- William Canevari <wcanevari@yahoo.com> wrote:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
thanks, 185k did not look right , but 18k seems liitle
low. Oh well, thanks for all the info.

M J

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#20

One technique that I find useful is to knock out the boothling with
some chloroform and then leap across the booth pretending that you
are helping her. Then loudly say out loud, "I wonder what shocked
her so much that she passed out, I'll bet it's on this screen".
Carefully look at the screen noting your comp balance and other
useful information such as game type played and highest/lowest
wager. Don't worry about the other Atlantis employees they won't
even notice as they will be busy reviving their coworker.

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "William Canevari"
<wcanevari@...> wrote:

If you are really inventive, you can use my alternative technique.
First you need a mirror the size of your player card. When you are

at

the booth, the computer monitor is under glass on the countertop,

but

slanted so you cannot see it. By holding your player card with the
mirror on the back, you can look at the screen while the clerk is
accessing your account. It helps to have more a fistful of cards or
brochures to help hide the mirror from the clerk.

One I have not tried yet, is to place a cell phone, camera lens down
on the glass, and take a picture discretely of the screen. Be sure

to

···

disable the flash and the click noise first.

The screen also contains other good information: average bet,
highest/lowest wager, game type played, total win/loss, etc.