vpFREE2 Forums

Atlantis New comp system --- The good, the bad, and the (Real) Ugly!!!! (Long)

Just got back from 1 day at the Nugget (first stay, thanks Moe), and three days at the Atlantis. I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out their new system. There is some good, but it is mostly bad.

When I got there Wednesday about noon, I went to the club desk to get a comp, and there were some friendly club personnel standing outside the desk explaining the new system to everyone that walked up. The first thing I noticed was a calendar for the month of October, showing a bunch of double and triple comp point accumulation days. Sweet! I'll be able to accumulate a bunch more comp points now. Anyway, they were showing everyone how to use the new kiosks to obtain your data. There are only two screens that show you useful data. One screen shows your tier points to date, the other shows your comp points. Comp points are shown in 1 cent increments, so if you have 9735 comp points, the food value of them is $97.35. Also, this is the point value you see at the machine you are playing at. If you pull up 'Account Summary' at your machine, it would show 9735 points. The only time these numbers do not match is if you have a joint account. In that case, each person's own card keeps up with that person only, but if either of you swipe your card at the kiosk, the number displayed there will always be the total for the account.

One last point on comps. Whenever you use your card to pay for a meal, the system immediately deducts half of the charge on each person's comp points. So, if my comp points were 5000 and my wife's was 3000, and we had a $20 meal, I would end up with 4000 and she would end up with 2000 (still no charge for tax).

Now for the Devil in the details. Of our three days, the first day was a 'no multiplier' day, the next was a 2X day, and the last was a 3X day. Well, I saw no reason to play much the first day, so we play only a little bit (three hours), ate dinner, and retired to our room early.

So, Friday morning I woke early (about 6 am) and decided to try to obtain the comp point accumulation numbers. So here is what I did....

I went to six different areas, and played exactly 80 hands of quarter JOB ($100 coin in). I checked my comp points right before I started and right after I finished. First I checked my comp balance after EVERY hand played, and as soon as it rolled over by one point, I started my 80 hands there. All were played on single line machines, with the exception of playing one of the Hundred Play machines in the tunnel. But I played it as a one line quarter game. Here is what I found....

Of the six areas I played I got these different accumulation numbers, and in % comp return..... .12, .14, .16, and .18.
That's right, folks, four different accumulation rates and a BIG downgrade! The worst was the hundred play in the tunnel at .12. Next was the nickle progressive at the bar behind the Java Coast at .14. Next were the three old bars, behind the Concierge room elevators, the Buffet bar, and the old sports book bar. They all came in at .16 Then on a machine accross from Java Coast somewhere (can't remember exactly) at .18. I did not check anything over by the new sports bar, or the rounder that has the 100%+ games on it (did not see the point).I could not get a good feel for tier points, but am sure they are accumulating faster than before..

Now I see that playing on a multiplier day was no longer a bonus, it was an absolute necessity! Even a 2X day on the best machine I saw was much lower than the VPFREE posted average of .5 %.

Armed with this information, I walked over to the club desk and saw club manager Tom Deucey there. I asked him if he would like some feedback from an out-of-towner on their new system. He said "Sure!", he appreciated the input because he uses that feedback in meetings with management on customer input. Right before I started, the casino manager walked by (can't remember his name). Tom called him over and introduced me and I started.

Fist, I commented on the good. I thought seeing your comp balance is great. You always know what you have, it's the way I wish every casino would work. Then, not having to wait in line to get a comp for one place or another. I said this was a plus.. Then the bad...

I told them it was VERY EASY to see that comp point accumulation was severely hit. I said that even playing on a double point day would not get me the same comps as before. I said that I would have to play on a triple point day to get close to what I was getting before....

Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!
Then, I pointed to the calander with the multiplier days on it. I said that since my first day was a non-multiplier day, that I had no incentive to play one that day. Why should I? If I here on multiple days, why play on a non-multiplier day? And I said if I'm a local that plays a couple or three times a week, you might as well put up a big sign on non-multiplier days saying "Locals! We don't want your business today!"

Then I told them, as an out-of-towner, I try to schedule my trips 2 to 3 months out. I usually have to wait until an airline sale occurs, and buy my tickets then. I told them if I got into town, and saw my three nights were all on single point days, I would be REALLY pissed! And I said if I come to town and my stay on single and double or triple point days, I have ZERO incentive to play any on the single point days. Is that what they really wanted???

In closing, everyone who plays a favorite game in a favorite section, better check your point accumulation and 'shop around' for the same game in other areas for a comparison. PLEASE post your findings on this board. This is going to be hard on all of us who play there.

My host (Bill Griffith) is no longer with the Atlantis, so I couldn't vent to him. HOWEVER, I encourage everyone to vent to Tom Deucey and their host about how unhappy you are with this downgrade. I believe they will need a lot of negative input before they change anything for the better. My suggestion for an improvement was to give everyone a few 2X and 3X coupons per month, and let the player decide when he or she wanted to use them.

For the month of October, there were six 2X days, five 3X days, and one 4X day. I took a photo of the calendar but could not figure out how to post it to the board. If someone knows how, or if only someone with authority has to post it, I could email it to them.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure of my numbers here, but I won't guarantee them. Please check for yourself and report you findings here. I think this knocks them down a few notches of the best places to play in Reno.

Good Luck,
Mike in Little Rock

Yep. You're probably on the "advantage player" or "opportunity player" list now for sure. Tough break. Usually it's best to just dummy up, casinos don't like customers that are smarter than they are.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@...> wrote:

Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!

On 2X-3X-4X point days, before playing - BE SURE to swipe your card at the Players Club to "activate" your extra accumulation for the day. I didn't realize that was a prerequisite and didn't get the extra points because I swiped when leaving - my bad! Doing so (activating) causes the little message "you are now earning 2X points" to appear on the little account summary display at the machine being played.

T C

Just got back from 1 day at the Nugget (first stay, thanks Moe), and three days at the Atlantis. I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out their new system. There is some good, but it is mostly bad.

When I got there Wednesday about noon, I went to the club desk to get a comp, and there were some friendly club personnel standing outside the desk explaining the new system to everyone that walked up. The first thing I noticed was a calendar for the month of October, showing a bunch of double and triple comp point accumulation days. Sweet! I'll be able to accumulate a bunch more comp points now. Anyway, they were showing everyone how to use the new kiosks to obtain your data. There are only two screens that show you useful data. One screen shows your tier points to date, the other shows your comp points. Comp points are shown in 1 cent increments, so if you have 9735 comp points, the food value of them is $97.35. Also, this is the point value you see at the machine you are playing at. If you pull up 'Account Summary' at your machine, it would show 9735 points. The only time these numbers do not match is if you have a joint account. In that case, each person's own card keeps up with that person only, but if either of you swipe your card at the kiosk, the number displayed there will always be the total for the account.

<rest deleted>

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@...> wrote:

Good Luck,
Mike in Little Rock

They can look at my play and tell I'm not an 'advantage' player. I play about 6 - 8k a day for about 12 days a year on just JOB. Besides, with no cashback and .12% in comps, I don't anybody could be considered an advantage player there anymore....

If so, when the comps run out, so will I....There are bigger fish in the Reno sea.....

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@> wrote:
> Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!

Yep. You're probably on the "advantage player" or "opportunity player" list now for sure. Tough break. Usually it's best to just dummy up, casinos don't like customers that are smarter than they are.

Nice job Mike ... you certainly saved me a lot of time in figuring out the new system.

If you can't post a picture of October's bonus point days, you could just post the remaining days with their bonus points in a post here.

Agree, you're probably in the clear if you did not identify yourself or show them your card. If you did, they probably did check your account for profitability. Hopefully you are not a consistent winner at VP ...

This is a great example of casinos underestimating the intelligence of their patrons. Their thinking: "This system is fool-proof, there's NO WAY a player could figure out our comp formula. So if anyone should happen to notice they are not earning as many comps, we can just say they are mistaken." Oops! Because there ARE intelligent players that will take the time and have the know-how to do an analysis of the "new, improved, player-friendly comp system that our players have requested." Savvy players know full-well that such language or a new tracking system is invariably associated with a downgrade in player benefits. Hopefully you get away with throwing this dirty little secret right back in their faces.

I think your recommendation about bonus day coupons (proportional to play) is a good one and may bear fruit. But unless lots of players notice their play is not earning as many comps (and complain), comp percentages will stay where they are. Not sure I would complain to management (more power to take adverse action against you) ... boothlings or hosts might be a better choice as management will be asking them to keep track of player feedback.

Thanks for the info ... it's pretty ugly all right.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@...> wrote:

They can look at my play and tell I'm not an 'advantage' player. I play about 6 - 8k a day for about 12 days a year on just JOB. Besides, with no cashback and .12% in comps, I don't anybody could be considered an advantage player there anymore....

If so, when the comps run out, so will I....There are bigger fish in the Reno sea.....

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@> wrote:
> > Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!
>
> Yep. You're probably on the "advantage player" or "opportunity player" list now for sure. Tough break. Usually it's best to just dummy up, casinos don't like customers that are smarter than they are.
>

Wow, this sounds disturbingly similar to the not-so-wonderful Harrah's comp system with their "multiplier" days a few times a month and your account summary available at every machine you play. You would starve to death if you had to rely for food on the HET "reward credits" you earn for play at their casinos (about 0.10% to 0.13% depending on various factors). At least their mailer tells you which days are the multiplier days so you can plan in advance.

I just got my new Atlantis mailer and most days are free for the months of October thru December. This is a big change from previous mailers and since I haven't played there since March, it can't be because I've been upgraded. This is also a lot like HET where you almost never need to pay for a room if you avoid weekends and they never charge your comp account for a room. What, did some marketing exec quit HET and move to Atlantis?

The old Atlantis comp system was so generous, I never had to pay to eat at their nice restaurants, let alone the buffet. Combined with the non-smoking areas, the great VP selection and the nice rooms, spa, etc. this was always one of my favorite places to stay and play.

Let's hope that they don't follow HET any further and start downgrading the VP and pricing their restaurants into the stratosphere!

Great report, Mike and thanks for telling us about this.

On 2X-3X-4X point days, before playing - BE SURE to swipe your card at the Players Club to "activate" your extra accumulation for the day.

See, Now THAT policy is Ridiculous with a capital R !!! A computer system that is so sophisticated that it handles jumbo jackpots, bases comps on locations and EV of the games played, tracks coin in and coin out and jackpots won - CANT , detect when a player puts his card in a machine for the first time in any given day ? Forcing players ( this policy is esp cruel to the elderly ) to go to a "special" activation machine / long line ( hint casino, for extra profit make this a single machine on the second floor only open 11:45 AM to Noon )... STUPID / GREEDY casino !

Thanks again for any info
Mike from Massachusetts

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@...> wrote:

Just got back from 1 day at the Nugget (first stay, thanks Moe), and three days at the Atlantis. I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out their new system. There is some good, but it is mostly bad.

When I got there Wednesday about noon, I went to the club desk to get a comp, and there were some friendly club personnel standing outside the desk explaining the new system to everyone that walked up. The first thing I noticed was a calendar for the month of October, showing a bunch of double and triple comp point accumulation days. Sweet! I'll be able to accumulate a bunch more comp points now. Anyway, they were showing everyone how to use the new kiosks to obtain your data. There are only two screens that show you useful data. One screen shows your tier points to date, the other shows your comp points. Comp points are shown in 1 cent increments, so if you have 9735 comp points, the food value of them is $97.35. Also, this is the point value you see at the machine you are playing at. If you pull up 'Account Summary' at your machine, it would show 9735 points. The only time these numbers do not match is if you have a joint account. In that case, each person's own card keeps up with that person only, but if either of you swipe your card at the kiosk, the number displayed there will always be the total for the account.

One last point on comps. Whenever you use your card to pay for a meal, the system immediately deducts half of the charge on each person's comp points. So, if my comp points were 5000 and my wife's was 3000, and we had a $20 meal, I would end up with 4000 and she would end up with 2000 (still no charge for tax).

Now for the Devil in the details. Of our three days, the first day was a 'no multiplier' day, the next was a 2X day, and the last was a 3X day. Well, I saw no reason to play much the first day, so we play only a little bit (three hours), ate dinner, and retired to our room early.

So, Friday morning I woke early (about 6 am) and decided to try to obtain the comp point accumulation numbers. So here is what I did....

I went to six different areas, and played exactly 80 hands of quarter JOB ($100 coin in). I checked my comp points right before I started and right after I finished. First I checked my comp balance after EVERY hand played, and as soon as it rolled over by one point, I started my 80 hands there. All were played on single line machines, with the exception of playing one of the Hundred Play machines in the tunnel. But I played it as a one line quarter game. Here is what I found....

Of the six areas I played I got these different accumulation numbers, and in % comp return..... .12, .14, .16, and .18.
That's right, folks, four different accumulation rates and a BIG downgrade! The worst was the hundred play in the tunnel at .12. Next was the nickle progressive at the bar behind the Java Coast at .14. Next were the three old bars, behind the Concierge room elevators, the Buffet bar, and the old sports book bar. They all came in at .16 Then on a machine accross from Java Coast somewhere (can't remember exactly) at .18. I did not check anything over by the new sports bar, or the rounder that has the 100%+ games on it (did not see the point).I could not get a good feel for tier points, but am sure they are accumulating faster than before..

Now I see that playing on a multiplier day was no longer a bonus, it was an absolute necessity! Even a 2X day on the best machine I saw was much lower than the VPFREE posted average of .5 %.

Armed with this information, I walked over to the club desk and saw club manager Tom Deucey there. I asked him if he would like some feedback from an out-of-towner on their new system. He said "Sure!", he appreciated the input because he uses that feedback in meetings with management on customer input. Right before I started, the casino manager walked by (can't remember his name). Tom called him over and introduced me and I started.

Fist, I commented on the good. I thought seeing your comp balance is great. You always know what you have, it's the way I wish every casino would work. Then, not having to wait in line to get a comp for one place or another. I said this was a plus.. Then the bad...

I told them it was VERY EASY to see that comp point accumulation was severely hit. I said that even playing on a double point day would not get me the same comps as before. I said that I would have to play on a triple point day to get close to what I was getting before....

Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!
Then, I pointed to the calander with the multiplier days on it. I said that since my first day was a non-multiplier day, that I had no incentive to play one that day. Why should I? If I here on multiple days, why play on a non-multiplier day? And I said if I'm a local that plays a couple or three times a week, you might as well put up a big sign on non-multiplier days saying "Locals! We don't want your business today!"

Then I told them, as an out-of-towner, I try to schedule my trips 2 to 3 months out. I usually have to wait until an airline sale occurs, and buy my tickets then. I told them if I got into town, and saw my three nights were all on single point days, I would be REALLY pissed! And I said if I come to town and my stay on single and double or triple point days, I have ZERO incentive to play any on the single point days. Is that what they really wanted???

In closing, everyone who plays a favorite game in a favorite section, better check your point accumulation and 'shop around' for the same game in other areas for a comparison. PLEASE post your findings on this board. This is going to be hard on all of us who play there.

My host (Bill Griffith) is no longer with the Atlantis, so I couldn't vent to him. HOWEVER, I encourage everyone to vent to Tom Deucey and their host about how unhappy you are with this downgrade. I believe they will need a lot of negative input before they change anything for the better. My suggestion for an improvement was to give everyone a few 2X and 3X coupons per month, and let the player decide when he or she wanted to use them.

For the month of October, there were six 2X days, five 3X days, and one 4X day. I took a photo of the calendar but could not figure out how to post it to the board. If someone knows how, or if only someone with authority has to post it, I could email it to them.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure of my numbers here, but I won't guarantee them. Please check for yourself and report you findings here. I think this knocks them down a few notches of the best places to play in Reno.

Good Luck,
Mike in Little Rock
I'm headed to Reno from the east coast in early December. I booked my trip thru Bill Griffith who always took very good care of me. Received a letter a couple weeks ago informing me of my new host John Wein-----? Called him to make sure everything was still booked and he would have to check to make sure they would still cover my airfare. I have two questions has Bill retired or move elsewhere? And has anyone had dealings with John Wein----? Any info would be of great help. If Bill has moved elsewhere I might b interested in giving him a call if VP is good.

When I was there in early Oct., I was just told Bill is not with them anymore. No reason given...

Mike in Little Rock

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "hartbarger11" <mhart@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "aclinml" <aclinml@> wrote:
>
> Just got back from 1 day at the Nugget (first stay, thanks Moe), and three days at the Atlantis. I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out their new system. There is some good, but it is mostly bad.
>
> When I got there Wednesday about noon, I went to the club desk to get a comp, and there were some friendly club personnel standing outside the desk explaining the new system to everyone that walked up. The first thing I noticed was a calendar for the month of October, showing a bunch of double and triple comp point accumulation days. Sweet! I'll be able to accumulate a bunch more comp points now. Anyway, they were showing everyone how to use the new kiosks to obtain your data. There are only two screens that show you useful data. One screen shows your tier points to date, the other shows your comp points. Comp points are shown in 1 cent increments, so if you have 9735 comp points, the food value of them is $97.35. Also, this is the point value you see at the machine you are playing at. If you pull up 'Account Summary' at your machine, it would show 9735 points. The only time these numbers do not match is if you have a joint account. In that case, each person's own card keeps up with that person only, but if either of you swipe your card at the kiosk, the number displayed there will always be the total for the account.
>
> One last point on comps. Whenever you use your card to pay for a meal, the system immediately deducts half of the charge on each person's comp points. So, if my comp points were 5000 and my wife's was 3000, and we had a $20 meal, I would end up with 4000 and she would end up with 2000 (still no charge for tax).
>
> Now for the Devil in the details. Of our three days, the first day was a 'no multiplier' day, the next was a 2X day, and the last was a 3X day. Well, I saw no reason to play much the first day, so we play only a little bit (three hours), ate dinner, and retired to our room early.
>
> So, Friday morning I woke early (about 6 am) and decided to try to obtain the comp point accumulation numbers. So here is what I did....
>
> I went to six different areas, and played exactly 80 hands of quarter JOB ($100 coin in). I checked my comp points right before I started and right after I finished. First I checked my comp balance after EVERY hand played, and as soon as it rolled over by one point, I started my 80 hands there. All were played on single line machines, with the exception of playing one of the Hundred Play machines in the tunnel. But I played it as a one line quarter game. Here is what I found....
>
> Of the six areas I played I got these different accumulation numbers, and in % comp return..... .12, .14, .16, and .18.
> That's right, folks, four different accumulation rates and a BIG downgrade! The worst was the hundred play in the tunnel at .12. Next was the nickle progressive at the bar behind the Java Coast at .14. Next were the three old bars, behind the Concierge room elevators, the Buffet bar, and the old sports book bar. They all came in at .16 Then on a machine accross from Java Coast somewhere (can't remember exactly) at .18. I did not check anything over by the new sports bar, or the rounder that has the 100%+ games on it (did not see the point).I could not get a good feel for tier points, but am sure they are accumulating faster than before..
>
> Now I see that playing on a multiplier day was no longer a bonus, it was an absolute necessity! Even a 2X day on the best machine I saw was much lower than the VPFREE posted average of .5 %.
>
> Armed with this information, I walked over to the club desk and saw club manager Tom Deucey there. I asked him if he would like some feedback from an out-of-towner on their new system. He said "Sure!", he appreciated the input because he uses that feedback in meetings with management on customer input. Right before I started, the casino manager walked by (can't remember his name). Tom called him over and introduced me and I started.
>
> Fist, I commented on the good. I thought seeing your comp balance is great. You always know what you have, it's the way I wish every casino would work. Then, not having to wait in line to get a comp for one place or another. I said this was a plus.. Then the bad...
>
> I told them it was VERY EASY to see that comp point accumulation was severely hit. I said that even playing on a double point day would not get me the same comps as before. I said that I would have to play on a triple point day to get close to what I was getting before....
>
> Well, it went kind of quiet after that. No one said anything for a few seconds. And the looks on their faces when I said that. They looked like I had just blurted out Colonel Sander's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices! How could I possibly know that information!
> Then, I pointed to the calander with the multiplier days on it. I said that since my first day was a non-multiplier day, that I had no incentive to play one that day. Why should I? If I here on multiple days, why play on a non-multiplier day? And I said if I'm a local that plays a couple or three times a week, you might as well put up a big sign on non-multiplier days saying "Locals! We don't want your business today!"
>
> Then I told them, as an out-of-towner, I try to schedule my trips 2 to 3 months out. I usually have to wait until an airline sale occurs, and buy my tickets then. I told them if I got into town, and saw my three nights were all on single point days, I would be REALLY pissed! And I said if I come to town and my stay on single and double or triple point days, I have ZERO incentive to play any on the single point days. Is that what they really wanted???
>
> In closing, everyone who plays a favorite game in a favorite section, better check your point accumulation and 'shop around' for the same game in other areas for a comparison. PLEASE post your findings on this board. This is going to be hard on all of us who play there.
>
> My host (Bill Griffith) is no longer with the Atlantis, so I couldn't vent to him. HOWEVER, I encourage everyone to vent to Tom Deucey and their host about how unhappy you are with this downgrade. I believe they will need a lot of negative input before they change anything for the better. My suggestion for an improvement was to give everyone a few 2X and 3X coupons per month, and let the player decide when he or she wanted to use them.
>
> For the month of October, there were six 2X days, five 3X days, and one 4X day. I took a photo of the calendar but could not figure out how to post it to the board. If someone knows how, or if only someone with authority has to post it, I could email it to them.
>
> Anyway, I'm pretty sure of my numbers here, but I won't guarantee them. Please check for yourself and report you findings here. I think this knocks them down a few notches of the best places to play in Reno.
>
> Good Luck,
> Mike in Little Rock
>I'm headed to Reno from the east coast in early December. I booked my trip thru Bill Griffith who always took very good care of me. Received a letter a couple weeks ago informing me of my new host John Wein-----? Called him to make sure everything was still booked and he would have to check to make sure they would still cover my airfare. I have two questions has Bill retired or move elsewhere? And has anyone had dealings with John Wein----? Any info would be of great help. If Bill has moved elsewhere I might b interested in giving him a call if VP is good.

Thanks again for any info
Mike from Massachusetts