vpFREE2 Forums

anything playable for 25c at MGM Grand?

#21

My responses follow....

Our venerable vpFREE Admin has suggested precisely what the ideal
environment would be. Masses who are informed only sufficiently
enough to know what the strongest paytables are (i.e. "full pay"),

but

aren't motivated to learn strategies, etc.

At my local casino: 6/5, 8/6, and 9/6 JOB are offered at the 25c
level. I will point out to people playing 6/5 machines (right after
they hit a Full House or Flush) that if they walk 20 FEET, they will
find 8/6 and 9/6 JOB. Their response: "Oh, I don't care about that.
I'm just playing for fun". If a $25 6:5 BJ table was located 20 feet
away from a $25 3:2 BJ table, wouldn't you rather get the better
payoff? Even if you're just "playing for fun".

If they flock to full pay games, casinos will be motivated to install
them. But, at the same time, the predominant play by the numerous
uneducated will ensure that casino holds on these games are far
stronger than when only the very knowledgable seek them out.

Everyone

comes out a winner.

On multi-game machines at my local casino, 9/6 JOB offers the best
paybacks, yet it is one of the least played games. I think that
casinos have scared off players so much from even TRYING to count
cards, learn positive expectation VP, etc. that players don't even
want to lower the house edge in negative expectation situations!

Replies appreciated.

#22

Perhaps this is because Stations require $2 per coin in for a point on positive machines?

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <fromthevault@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

As far as short pay VP, I wouldn't worry. I was at Green Valley Ranch
Monday night. Played all the 10/6 DDB's and Optimum Plays. While
playing, one other player was seen on any of these machines.
Meanwhile, other banks were getting plenty of play. The shame would be
the removal of the full pay machines because they don't get enough
play. Wouldn't that be ironic?

Or take the Suncoast as an example. I see plenty of people playing max
coin nickel 6/5 DDB. They would probably be better off playing single
coin quarter 9/6 DDB. Months ago I posed the same question on this
message board. The consensus answer was they are "clueless", which is
fine with me. Idiot nation. Zombie nation. Plus this is Nevada; given
the quality of education in this state, no one should be surprised.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Thomas <jfthomas3@c...> wrote:

Realistically, I think if people start staying away from short-pay
VP, then the casinos will just decide that VP is unprofitable
altogether and start replacing them with slot machines. I don't
see them saying "Hey, we need to put in better paytables so that
people will play VP." I see them saying "This 3000 SF of floor

space

only makes $X/hr per SF, so let's take 'em all out and put in multi-
line nickel video slots, which have a hold of $Y/her per SF."

So, yeah, let's hear it for the uninformed and the losers. They

keep

the decent opportunities around for the rest of us.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#23

Ploppy is a word used far more on other forums. I have always taken it to
mean an individual who "plops" on a stool infront of any table or machine,
without regard for paytable, rules or strategy. Someone who chooses where
to play randomly and how to play cluelessly.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
jackessiebabe
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:36 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: XVP "Ploppie" vs. Tourist - (was A faint ray of
hope)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mckenna <tmac2@l...> wrote:

"Ploppies".....great word.!! What's the difference
between "ploppies" and "toursts"?
---------------------------------------------
Hi Dick,

That's a very good question! I'm usually not stumped by most "word
questions", but since I can't find a real definition for "Ploppie"
in Webster's Dictionary, I'll tell you MY definition of each (as
applies to LV visitors.)

#24

I'm curious if there is any solid evidence that the inventory reduction at
Coast affected Coast bottom line one way or the other. Why do you think it
was successful? Without getting into philosophy or utopian visions if
possible;-) We have all been through that wringer before and, frankly,
knowledge is going to spread, and what is going to happen is going to happen
without regard for anyones vision of how things should be.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:40 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

But this scenario is utopian. The reality is represented by when
Coast Casinos pulled FP Deuces and DB. Players, for various reasons
(some valid, such as major convenience) have continued to play there
and I have every reason to expect this was a very successful strategic
move by Coast.

- Harry

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#25

Casinos don't even have to scare off players. Look in any casino. What
are most people playing? Slots. They could put signs above the
machines that said "90% PAYBACK"; people would still play. Most
players just want to be entertained. They would like to win, but they
don't expect to win.

Then look at VP in almost any casino. There will be far more people
playing lower paytable machines. As an example, Station has a Jumbo
Jackpot linked int all it's Vegas casinos. When it hits, everyone
playing with their card gets $50 Freeplay. Something like 8000 players
got Freeplay when the last jackpot hit. Of course, more than 50% were
playing slots. but more interesting was the percent that were playing
100% VP at the time. (Think about a real low single digit number).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "djmcosmo" <djmcosmo@y...> wrote:

On multi-game machines at my local casino, 9/6 JOB offers the best
paybacks, yet it is one of the least played games. I think that
casinos have scared off players so much from even TRYING to count
cards, learn positive expectation VP, etc. that players don't even
want to lower the house edge in negative expectation situations!

Replies appreciated.

#26

Perhaps, but I doubt it. What is the actual value of one point at
Station? Is it enough to give up 1% to 2% on a machine?

Perhaps this is because Stations require $2 per coin in for a

point on

positive machines?

From: "Charles" <fromthevault@y...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

> As far as short pay VP, I wouldn't worry. I was at Green Valley

Ranch

> Monday night. Played all the 10/6 DDB's and Optimum Plays. While
> playing, one other player was seen on any of these machines.
> Meanwhile, other banks were getting plenty of play. The shame

would be

> the removal of the full pay machines because they don't get

enough

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
> play. Wouldn't that be ironic?
>

#27

Well, it could be a coincidence that Coast eventually sold itself to
Boyd Gaming. Or perhaps they were suffering a little. Or maybe they
just fed up fighting the Fertittas. I can say for sure that since Boyd
took over, the Suncoast has been slowly reducing its number of VP
machines. Same thing with the Orleans. The key word is slowly.

I'm curious if there is any solid evidence that the inventory

reduction at

Coast affected Coast bottom line one way or the other. Why do you

think it

was successful? Without getting into philosophy or utopian visions

if

possible;-) We have all been through that wringer before and,

frankly,

knowledge is going to spread, and what is going to happen is going

to happen

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@c...> wrote:

without regard for anyones vision of how things should be.

Chandler

#28

GOOD QUESTION. If lousy paytables improve the bottom line then why did Suncoast just put in some 99.5%+ games?

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandler" <omnibibulous1@comcast.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

I'm curious if there is any solid evidence that the inventory reduction at
Coast affected Coast bottom line one way or the other. Why do you think it
was successful? Without getting into philosophy or utopian visions if
possible;-) We have all been through that wringer before and, frankly,
knowledge is going to spread, and what is going to happen is going to happen
without regard for anyones vision of how things should be.

Chandler

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:40 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

But this scenario is utopian. The reality is represented by when
Coast Casinos pulled FP Deuces and DB. Players, for various reasons
(some valid, such as major convenience) have continued to play there
and I have every reason to expect this was a very successful strategic
move by Coast.

- Harry

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#29

Charles.... You are assuming that these are knowledgeable people. I am not. I know of people who will not play the over 100% machines because they pay 1/2 points.
Look around. Most people are playing the super short pay stuff.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <fromthevault@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

Perhaps, but I doubt it. What is the actual value of one point at
Station? Is it enough to give up 1% to 2% on a machine?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Perhaps this is because Stations require $2 per coin in for a

point on

positive machines?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <fromthevault@y...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

> As far as short pay VP, I wouldn't worry. I was at Green Valley

Ranch

> Monday night. Played all the 10/6 DDB's and Optimum Plays. While
> playing, one other player was seen on any of these machines.
> Meanwhile, other banks were getting plenty of play. The shame

would be

> the removal of the full pay machines because they don't get

enough

> play. Wouldn't that be ironic?
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#30

Charles.... You are assuming that these are knowledgeable people. I

am not.

I know of people who will not play the over 100% machines because

they pay

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

1/2 points.
Look around. Most people are playing the super short pay stuff.

=====================================
There are many positive opportunities at Stations without playing
Optimum Play or the banks of 10/6 DDB. GVR's 100% machines are usually
filled up during the busy hours. There are FIVE banks of machines with
progressives and usually one of them is positive on a daily basis.
Yes, most of the players don't know a pay table from a pool table but
don't think all of us are ignorant.

#31

Obviously. None of this was directed toward you. I play progressives also. I am talking about short pay stuff like 12/10 deuces...... etc. Without a progressive. etc.... If the game is positive with a progressive this is a different situation.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "staninnv" <arnot@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Charles.... You are assuming that these are knowledgeable people. I

am not.

I know of people who will not play the over 100% machines because

they pay

1/2 points.
Look around. Most people are playing the super short pay stuff.

=====================================
There are many positive opportunities at Stations without playing
Optimum Play or the banks of 10/6 DDB. GVR's 100% machines are usually
filled up during the busy hours. There are FIVE banks of machines with
progressives and usually one of them is positive on a daily basis.
Yes, most of the players don't know a pay table from a pool table but
don't think all of us are ignorant.

#32

ednar wrote:

GOOD QUESTION. If lousy paytables improve the bottom line then why
did Suncoast just put in some 99.5%+ games?

Perhaps because no one can turn these games into "positive"
expectation? (ok, maybe a slim "advantage" under the right promo) To
the extent that these machines encourage additional play, without
excessively canabalizing poor paytable play, they have the potential
to add to the bottom line.

- H.

#33

Harry. Agreed, but didn't they just remove these almost positive games not too long ago? SO now they are putting them back in?

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

ednar wrote:

GOOD QUESTION. If lousy paytables improve the bottom line then why
did Suncoast just put in some 99.5%+ games?

Perhaps because no one can turn these games into "positive"
expectation? (ok, maybe a slim "advantage" under the right promo) To
the extent that these machines encourage additional play, without
excessively canabalizing poor paytable play, they have the potential
to add to the bottom line.

- H.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#34

ednar wrote:

Harry. Agreed, but didn't they just remove these almost positive games
not too long ago? SO now they are putting them back in?

The clueless among us have to feel our way in the dark ...

- H.

#35

I can't see because the sun is too bright.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

ednar wrote:

Harry. Agreed, but didn't they just remove these almost positive games
not too long ago? SO now they are putting them back in?

The clueless among us have to feel our way in the dark ...

- H.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#36

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Krankowski <brkrane@y...>
wrote:

--- mklpryy24 <mklpryy24@y...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly
> <jwkelly@f...> wrote:
> > Was just writing my annual article for the
> American Casino Guide,
> where
> > I note the best Vegas casinos for video-poker
> playing visitors, and
> > noticed a couple of oddities:
> >
>
***************************************************************
> > If you are a local Vegan ,its tuff. If you are a
> tourist go to Reno
> Reno if you can get a flight, VP is better &
> improving.
> > > I said it before but if you want vastly superior
> gaming & at LEAST
> equal rooms & food, RENO RENO
> M J
>
>
> hey nj iam retired from nj las vegas has all top
paying games at full pay you yust have to know where
to play. reno is not better tahoe is worst and
atlantic city is forget about it from ron framus
>
> *************************************************

ROFLMAO
M J

···

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#37

Blinded by the light? Would this be the Bruce Springsteen version or the
Manfred Mann version? :wink:

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
ednar
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:21 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

I can't see because the sun is too bright.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@verizon.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A faint ray of hope

ednar wrote:

Harry. Agreed, but didn't they just remove these almost positive games
not too long ago? SO now they are putting them back in?

The clueless among us have to feel our way in the dark ...

- H.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links