vpFREE2 Forums

Another Video Poker web site

irvsiegel wrote:

I've only been playing VP for a short time, and I've been a member
here for even less time. I've found another Video Poker site, but
they charge for its use. I was wondering if anyone here is a member
of that site, and if you've found it useful. Thanks in advance! The

URL is http://www.vphomepage.com/.

I'm a member of VPFREE and VPHOMEPAGE and find them
both worthwhile, although VPHOMEPAGE has gone downhill
a lot since John Kelly retired. Data base changes are
no longer updated in a timely manner.

I recommend both groups if you have the time and the
interest, but I think VPFREE is the better of the two
by far. I prefer VPFREE's organization, content and
coverage, and its data base is more extensive and current.

···

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You forgot one thing about vpFREE. It's free.
There is nothing wrong with Vphomepage, I was a member there for a number of years.
I could no longer justify the value of it to myself, since vpFREE came along.
For the money that a yearly subscription costs on Vphomepage I could get an additional subscription to the Las Vegas Advisor
and get an additional coupon book with a ton of proven value. The top 40 list over there, while interesting is just one mans' opinion.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Smitty_3752
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:06 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Another Video Poker web site

  I'm a member of VPFREE and VPHOMEPAGE and find them
  both worthwhile, although VPHOMEPAGE has gone downhill
  a lot since John Kelly retired. Data base changes are
  no longer updated in a timely manner.

  I recommend both groups if you have the time and the
  interest, but I think VPFREE is the better of the two
  by far. I prefer VPFREE's organization, content and
  coverage, and its data base is more extensive and current.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Albert Pearson wrote:
The

top 40 list over there, while interesting is just one mans'
opinion.

Hi Albert;
I've seen you make this same statement before, but your assumption
is not quite incorrect. The top40 is primarily determined this way
(and always has been done in a similar fashion, as far as I know):

1. Input from subscribers is the primary source of determining the
values assigned to each category for a casino:
a. VP best play (this is a fixed value based on the best game -
there is a list of games and their rating at the top of the top40
page).
b. VP overall Inventory
c. Benefits
D. Hotel
E. Food
F. Promotions
There are some additional categories but these are not used in the
overall rating category. They are:
Ratings for
G. Locals
H. Low-rolling Visitor
I. Mid-rolling Visitor and
J. High Rolling Visitor
and
K. Trend

···

----
Each of the categories, a-f, have a numerical value (shown as 1-5
stars). The overall rating is determined simply by adding these
together with a,b and c having twice the weight of other categories.

I don't go to the spreadsheet every time I adjust a casino's rating
when a serious report of some changes to but adjust the individual
category and the overall placement. Then every couple of months I
review the whole thing check the individual ratings to make sure
they appear to be in line with current information, adjust the
numbers in the spreadsheet and use the new numbers to make any
further changes, if necessary.

So it's far from simply "one man's opinion". Sure, my opinion (and
John's, when he was doing it) counts more than anyone else's when it
involves a place I am very knowledgeable about - but that's only a
small percentage of the total number of casinos in Las Vegas. For
the rest I depend on member input.

This whole system was John Kelly's invention and I think it's
brilliant and far and away the best way so far, to rate casinos.
Certainly better than a poll or "one person's opinion" .
--
Actually, there is an even better way, but that is not available
yet. This whole system will change soon. As a matter of fact, the
entire web site will change, as I am partnering with a well known
publisher and web site owner in the gambling area on a new web site
- vpinsider.com. This will replace the current web site and current
subscribers will automatically become members.

Although I have publicized the site internally to vphomepage and
Video Poker Player subscribers, I have not promoted it yet on the
"outside", excpet that our ad is in Steve Bouries 2005 American
Casino Guide. The new site will be up and running soon (hopefully
right around the first of the year). There is a great deal of design
and programming involved.

I will write more about this later, but the part that's relevant to
this note is that the ratings (and virtually everything else on the
site) will be driven by a relational database. So, if for some
reason, we change the rating of a particular category for a casino,
the overall rating will automatically change. But more than that,
the "top 40" (actually, it's been Top 60 for a while) will be simply
the default ratings. The users will be able to design their own
ratings using and weighting the categories which are most valuable
to them (surprise, everyboy's different). Each person would have a
different Top XX (you can choose how casinos many you want to rate -
most folks don't care about the "bottom 50"), customized just for
him, by him.

Similarly, there will be default automatic ratings for the G-J
categories using differnt formulas (for instance promotions would
have greater weight for locals).

There's a whole lot more, but that's pretty much how the ratings
part will work in the future.

Thanks,
Skip

Skip Hughes wrote:
your assumption

is not quite incorrect.

I meant to say "your not quite is incorrectly assumed." Or
something like that.
Skip

Albert Pearson wrote:

The top 40 list over there, while interesting is just one mans'
opinion.

I'll support the rebuttal in Skip's reply. The "Top 40" is a reliable
synthesis not only of Skip's personal observations in the the field,
but more importantly reflects aggregate feedback of the membership.

This isn't a case of Skip staring at the coffee grounds in his cup
each morning and making a few calls about "who's hot". He actively
engages the vphomepage membership in making his assessments and I've
had more than one discussion with him in review of particular standings.

No doubt, everyone will find something to disagree with in the
standings. If I or anyone else didn't I'd question the ability to
think independently.

- Harry

Harry: The inherent problem with any list is that it is based on one or more peoples' opinions .
The thing is that almost everyone has a different set of criteria for what they consider important.
Locals look at cash back and bounce back .
Visitors look at comps.
High rollers look at one kind of machine.
Low rollers look at others.
There are other criteria to throw in as well.

The point is that Ranking Casinos is something akin to handicapping horses, and is as much art as science.
I will admit that a top 40 or 60 list can be very helpful for the beginner, but once you have become a regular to Vegas
I believe lists such as the top 40/60 are of minimal value at best.

I can only speak for myself, and while vphomepage is a good product, I don't believe that there is enough information out there
to justify the cost differential between it and vpFREE. If vpFREE did not exist I would rejoin vphomepage in a minute.
I also find that between reading all the posts here and the posts on the LVA forums, I would not have any time to play VP
if I had to plow through many more items than I already am.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Harry Porter
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:41 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Another Video Poker web site

  I'll support the rebuttal in Skip's reply. The "Top 40" is a reliable
  synthesis not only of Skip's personal observations in the the field,
  but more importantly reflects aggregate feedback of the membership.

  This isn't a case of Skip staring at the coffee grounds in his cup
  each morning and making a few calls about "who's hot". He actively
  engages the vphomepage membership in making his assessments and I've
  had more than one discussion with him in review of particular standings.

  No doubt, everyone will find something to disagree with in the
  standings. If I or anyone else didn't I'd question the ability to
  think independently.

  - Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agree. I suscribed to vphomepage in 2003/2004. VP free is better.
Biggest complaint about vphomepage, data is old, and the info on casinos
other than vegas is meager at best and even more outdated.

Newsletter is very good however.

···

Albert Pearson <a-p@sympatico.ca> wrote:
You forgot one thing about vpFREE. It's free.
There is nothing wrong with Vphomepage, I was a member there for a number of years.
I could no longer justify the value of it to myself, since vpFREE came along.
For the money that a yearly subscription costs on Vphomepage I could get an additional subscription to the Las Vegas Advisor
and get an additional coupon book with a ton of proven value. The top 40 list over there, while interesting is just one mans' opinion.

Regards
A.P.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Smitty_3752
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:06 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Another Video Poker web site

  I'm a member of VPFREE and VPHOMEPAGE and find them
  both worthwhile, although VPHOMEPAGE has gone downhill
  a lot since John Kelly retired. Data base changes are
  no longer updated in a timely manner.

  I recommend both groups if you have the time and the
  interest, but I think VPFREE is the better of the two
  by far. I prefer VPFREE's organization, content and
  coverage, and its data base is more extensive and current.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This will be my last comment on this matter .

Skip: The top 40/60 is a list maintained by you. The formula that you use, is your formula.The weightings are determined by you.
If I write a book, and use proper footnotes, and base my research on what many tell me, it is still my book.
Jean Scott has written a number of extremely well regarded books on gambling . She has done research and
has used input from many people. No one doubts that the opinions given in her books are her opinions.
How one makes a determination is a complex matter, the results are theirs.
The best analogy I think is still handicapping a horse race. There are a lot of formulas out there ,and they all work some of the time.
The results you get are based on the formula that you pick, and you sir are doing the picking.

I stand by my comment, which was not disingenuous. It may be wrong but I truly believe in everything I said.

Regards
A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Albert Pearson wrote:

This will be my last comment on this matter .

Then you have the last word, Albert, because I have nothing new to
add. How's that for a surprise ending?<g>
Thanks,
Skip