vpFREE2 Forums

Another One Bites the Dust

#1

It's extinct now so what the hell! I'm singin' the blues, baby! They took the easy money job away. Those dirty *&%&$*&%*&^$#!! Oh, well. May as well brag about the extinct play, now that it's over. This goes out to those friends of mine that didn't tell me about the $1 FPDW progressive at Ruidoso, New Mexico until it was over. You had a good laugh on me so guess who's laughing now? I'll tell you everything but the name of the game. But it has something to do with gold, pyramids, and such. Only thing is, it's extinct here.

It was a keno progressive. It was stand-alone progressive, but found on multi-game machines. It was on a few thousand machines around the state. 5-Spot, 6-Spot, 7-Spot, 8-Spot, 9-Spot, 10-Spot progressives. I'm gonna leave off the 5-spot and 9-spot, because, in 4 years I only got one play on each. I'm gonna start with the 6-spot which was the least pay:

HIT.............PAY....FREQ....PAYBACKS%
3/6..............3.....7.70...//.3896103%
4/6..............7....35.04...//.1997716%
5/6.............29...323.04...//.0897721%
BONUS ROUND......9...151.00...//.0596026%
6/6............400..7752.84...//.0515539%

···

__________________________________________
BASE GAME PAYBACK.............//.7980502%

Wow! That's a pretty bad payscale. Better be something good to fade a drop like that.

1% progessive with meter starting at $100. You can bet up to $2 but only have to bet 50 cents to qualify for the progressive.....but the meter isn't on hitting a solid six-spot....it's on catching 5/6 five times.

The frequency for hitting 5 out of 6 five times is 1615. Betting 50 cents the meter pays 200 bets. 200/1616=.123839%. So now we got the game up to 92.1889%. Then there is the 1% meter which brings the game up to about 93.2%.

Not anything I'm gonna play straight thru. I'm gonna use $110 as a par progressive number. There are five little blank icons at the top of the screen. When you make 5/6 it fills an icon in. When you make another 5/6 it fills another icon in, etc. When you get five icons you get the progressive.

So I walk into a joint, go up to a machine, punch the game up and see how many icons are filled in.

This is where I'm at according to how many icons are filled in using $110 as the par progressive number"

One icon to go................//148.9%
Two icons to go...............//111.8%

It's the OPM principle....other peoples money. Their money filled those icons in, but they didn't finish the play. I finished it for them.

#2

There is something kind of similar at my local casino. There is a bank of 10 slot machines all with different games. There is a random pirate bonus which pops up randomly. When it pops up you get three chances to pick one of 42 spots to find a key. Then you have a 1:4 chance for the maxi prize which is progressive and starts at $125. You can bet as low as 30 cents and bet amount doesn't seem to increase the frequency of the pirate bonus. The thing is it doesn't reset between players. So you can walk up to each machine and see how many spots have already been picked. I sat down at one that only had 4 spots left to uncover. Bonus popped up within 10 minutes, and I did hit the maximum for $137. Once you find the key, your machine resets to a 1:42 chance of finding the key. People don't seem to be understanding how this works yet and sit down with little to no spaces uncovered.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

It's extinct now so what the hell! I'm singin' the blues, baby! They took the easy money job away. Those dirty *&%&$*&%*&^$#!! Oh, well. May as well brag about the extinct play, now that it's over. This goes out to those friends of mine that didn't tell me about the $1 FPDW progressive at Ruidoso, New Mexico until it was over. You had a good laugh on me so guess who's laughing now? I'll tell you everything but the name of the game. But it has something to do with gold, pyramids, and such. Only thing is, it's extinct here.

It was a keno progressive. It was stand-alone progressive, but found on multi-game machines. It was on a few thousand machines around the state. 5-Spot, 6-Spot, 7-Spot, 8-Spot, 9-Spot, 10-Spot progressives. I'm gonna leave off the 5-spot and 9-spot, because, in 4 years I only got one play on each. I'm gonna start with the 6-spot which was the least pay:

HIT.............PAY....FREQ....PAYBACKS%
3/6..............3.....7.70...//.3896103%
4/6..............7....35.04...//.1997716%
5/6.............29...323.04...//.0897721%
BONUS ROUND......9...151.00...//.0596026%
6/6............400..7752.84...//.0515539%
__________________________________________
BASE GAME PAYBACK.............//.7980502%

Wow! That's a pretty bad payscale. Better be something good to fade a drop like that.

1% progessive with meter starting at $100. You can bet up to $2 but only have to bet 50 cents to qualify for the progressive.....but the meter isn't on hitting a solid six-spot....it's on catching 5/6 five times.

The frequency for hitting 5 out of 6 five times is 1615. Betting 50 cents the meter pays 200 bets. 200/1616=.123839%. So now we got the game up to 92.1889%. Then there is the 1% meter which brings the game up to about 93.2%.

Not anything I'm gonna play straight thru. I'm gonna use $110 as a par progressive number. There are five little blank icons at the top of the screen. When you make 5/6 it fills an icon in. When you make another 5/6 it fills another icon in, etc. When you get five icons you get the progressive.

So I walk into a joint, go up to a machine, punch the game up and see how many icons are filled in.

This is where I'm at according to how many icons are filled in using $110 as the par progressive number"

One icon to go................//148.9%
Two icons to go...............//111.8%

It's the OPM principle....other peoples money. Their money filled those icons in, but they didn't finish the play. I finished it for them.

#3

At 1% the 6-Spot had the slowest meter.

The 7-Spot had a 4% meter that started at $100. You filled an icon in by hitting 6/7. I used par numbers that I carried around in my pocket notebook to figure where I was at on a play. For instance, a 7-Spot, two icons to go at $310 was exactly a 10% overlay. So if the meter was at $400 I would divide the extra 180 bets by the 6/7 frequency times two (1366 X 2 = 2732)which made it a 116.6% play through filling the rest of the icons in.

The 8-Spot only had a 2% meter that started at $100. You filled an icon in by hitting 6/8. The frequency is 422.5. $50 per icon was an 8% overlay. So if it was two to go at $130 it was a 115.1% play.

The 10-Spot had a 4% meter. You filled an icon in by hitting 7/10, frequency is 621.7. This was the real gravy train play. 10% overlay at $78 per icon. So a 10-Spot 1 to go at $350 was a 198% play. At 2 to go it was a 141% play, at three to go it was a 122% play. At 4 to go it was a 113% play.

Putting the machine on turbo speed meant getting out 1400 games per hour--that's $700 an hour in action. Lumping all the plays together I operated with about a 30% edge. Which meant my time was worth about $210 an hour on $700 an hour in action. Of course, that's just seat time. I spent considerable time looking for the plays, but the overall hourly rate was still pretty good.

#4

Seriously, where the fuck do you find plays like this? They must be at random bars and shit like that?

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

At 1% the 6-Spot had the slowest meter.

The 7-Spot had a 4% meter that started at $100. You filled an icon in by hitting 6/7. I used par numbers that I carried around in my pocket notebook to figure where I was at on a play. For instance, a 7-Spot, two icons to go at $310 was exactly a 10% overlay. So if the meter was at $400 I would divide the extra 180 bets by the 6/7 frequency times two (1366 X 2 = 2732)which made it a 116.6% play through filling the rest of the icons in.

The 8-Spot only had a 2% meter that started at $100. You filled an icon in by hitting 6/8. The frequency is 422.5. $50 per icon was an 8% overlay. So if it was two to go at $130 it was a 115.1% play.

The 10-Spot had a 4% meter. You filled an icon in by hitting 7/10, frequency is 621.7. This was the real gravy train play. 10% overlay at $78 per icon. So a 10-Spot 1 to go at $350 was a 198% play. At 2 to go it was a 141% play, at three to go it was a 122% play. At 4 to go it was a 113% play.

Putting the machine on turbo speed meant getting out 1400 games per hour--that's $700 an hour in action. Lumping all the plays together I operated with about a 30% edge. Which meant my time was worth about $210 an hour on $700 an hour in action. Of course, that's just seat time. I spent considerable time looking for the plays, but the overall hourly rate was still pretty good.

#5

I've been asked to discuss why the game got pulled so here goes.

In Montana a licensed establishment can have a maximum of only 20 machines. So each machine had both keno and poker games. On the machines that had the game on it, there were a dozen keno games and 6 video poker games. Then video line games got legalized. So now you have three choices on each machine, keno, poker, lines games. I suspect the game got pulled to make room for the line games. It was my observance that the game wound up being one of the lowest grossing games for the house.

They put the game on a little over 4 years ago. It was in the bottom right hand corner of the game selection screen with a little symbol that said "new game." This attracted attention and the game initially got lots of action. I hadn't gotten around to analyzing the game yet. I generally stay backed up on analyzing games.

But I was in a joint on another play one day. Someone walked up to the machine beside me and punched the game up. From my peripheral I seen him looking at something at the top of the screen. He didn't find anything and left. So I slid over to see what he was looking for. I seen the little icons and went "uh oh!!" I went through the game rules and everything, checked the meter speeds--I found the 4% meters on the 7 and 10 spots.

Then I went home and crunched the math. It was a lot of work because I had to do everything from the 5-Spot up to the 10-Spot. I had to figure out the Bonus Round, a game within the game, and what it was worth. Luckily, it was worth the same, 9 bets, no matter how many spots I was playing. There were just different frequencies for getting into the Bonus Round. For instance, the 7-Spot frequency was 102 and the 10-Spot frequency was 128.

I created par numbers and listed them in my pocket notebook. Then I went out to see what I could find. I found a lot. The game was new and getting action. I did little else but play that particular game. I knocked the whole state down.

After that initial rush the plays were less frequent but I was still getting them. But after about 6 months action on the game waned. The one thing a square bettor notices is how fast his/her money is disappearing. Depending on the number of spots I was playing, I was fading an 18% to 28% drop to collect the jackpot. This was the kind of drop the square bettors were fading too....but so many of them didn't make up for it on the end by collecting the jackpot. So action dwindled down....but the game continued to add to my bottom line for 4 years.

There were some interesting things that happened along the way. Sometimes I would find a meter way out of wack. Like a 6-Spot with no icons filled in but the meter is at $500+. This was huge so I would spin them off--all the while hoping that the meter reset way higher than the $100 it was supposed to reset at. No luck there, but eventually, I walked into a joint one day....

to be continued.

#6

In order to find plays like this I think you have to be a high school drop-out, thumb bummin', day laboring, train ridin' no good driftin' idiot-with an aptitude in math-- thats got nothing better to do but roam around the country looking for stuff like that. A Nevada casino hustler in the outback? Watch out!!!

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:

Seriously, where the &%*%@# do you find plays like this? They must be >at random bars and shit like that?

#7

So I walk into a bar one night. Six machines. I punch the game up on all six to see where the icons and the meters are at. The 10-Spot was at $500+ on all six machines. Whoopee!! One of them was 3 to go, the rest were 4 to go. But at $500 it's a huge play even if you have to fill all five icons. I sat down on the 3 to go and spun it off. Guess what happened? The meter reset at $500 instead of $100.

I had to do some thinking about how to handle the situation. It was a Mom & Pop joint. But their machines got lots of action. Did I want to crush it or milk it? Playing straight thru it was a 121.7% play. A $150 an hour play running just $700 an hour in action.

Of the six machines, the highest meter was $512. With a 4% meter that told me that the game was getting hardly any action at all. But I had no idea how long the meter glitch had been there.

I spun another play off that night--feeding $20 bills in as I ran out of credits to keep the cashout as low as possible. I wanted to attract as little attention as possible.

I would go in every 2 or three days and spin a play off. I tracked the meters to insure I was the only one playing the game. After I collected the jackpot I would push the meter up to $500.15. If I left the meter on a flat $500, then I wouldn't know if someone else was playing the game, and leaving the meter on a a flat $500. This went on for several months. I never saw meter movement of more than a few dollars at a time--and no one was putting in free icons for me. I had the game to myself.

A one cycle session was about 3100 games, or a little over two hours a play, with an earn of $337. Then one day the slot techs walked in and installed a new game on the machines. In the process the meters started resetting at $100. Another one bites the dust.

That hurt me in more ways than one. Because they installed that game in every machine in the state. In the process it wiped out all the built up icons. The progressive money remained but the icons were blanked out.

I kept a list of potential plays in my notebook. It looked something like this:

Jackpot Junction....10-Spot....3 to go....$190
Mardi Gras....7-Spot....2 to go....$250

So the next time I was in that area I would go and check to see if someone popped an icon in or ran the meter up to where it was a play. Then those &&$%*((^) blanked the icons out on me. It took several months before I started getting plays again.

NOTE: I benefitted from both short coiners and long coiners. A short coiner was anyone who played less than a fifty cent bet. They didn't fill icons but they ran the meters up. At 50 cents a game I was putting 2 cents per game in the meter. But a long coiner, betting $1 per game put 4 cents per game in the meter, at $2 he was putting 8 cents per game in the meter.

ANOTHER NOTE: Montana Gaming is pretty lax compared to Nevada. In Nevada, wiping those icons out would be "altering the outcome of a game."

#8

Another fascinating report from the field, Mickey. Your war stories are both compelling and enlightening. I’m a full time wage slave who’s been AP'ing on the side for about 8 years. I play blackjack, VP, and other games where an edge can be found, and I read up on all of them. Books, websites, radio shows (all one of them), forums, online chats, I’ve communicated with and learned from plenty of players over the years, from the well known and respected to other unknown part timers like myself. Your tales paint a clear picture of what it takes to be a lone wolf hustler. I’ve found them very beneficial as I weigh out my own future as an AP. Sometimes the stories say I’m ready to make the leap. Other times they tell me to stick with the day job. Keep hustling, Mickey, and keep writing.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

So I walk into a bar one night. Six machines. I punch the game up on all six to see where the icons and the meters are at. The 10-Spot was at $500+ on all six machines. Whoopee!! One of them was 3 to go, the rest were 4 to go. But at $500 it's a huge play even if you have to fill all five icons. I sat down on the 3 to go and spun it off. Guess what happened? The meter reset at $500 instead of $100.

#9

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ma18ks" <89109.nv@...

Another fascinating report from the field, Mickey. Your war stories are both compelling and enlightening. I’m a full time wage slave who’s been AP'ing on the side for about 8 years. I play blackjack, VP, and other games where an edge can be found, and I read up on all of them. Books, websites, radio shows (all one of them), forums, online chats, I’ve communicated with and learned from plenty of players over the years, from the well known and respected to other unknown part timers like myself. Your tales paint a clear picture of what it takes to be a lone wolf hustler. I’ve found them very beneficial as I weigh out my own future as an AP. Sometimes the stories say I’m ready to make the leap. Other times they tell me to stick with the day job. Keep hustling, Mickey, and keep writing.

>

ma18ks, don't give up you're day job. Dont't give up anthing like that to be someone like me. I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You must understand the loneliness involved of being someone like me. If you can't tolerate the lonliness then you need to find another trade. vpFREE is a release for me. A release from the God forsaken lonliness of what i do.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#10

But, ma18ks, I like that moniker you hung on me, Lone Wolf Hustler. That shoe fits pretty tight.

#11

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ma18ks" <89109.nv@
> Another fascinating report from the field, Mickey. Your war stories are both compelling and enlightening. I’m a full time wage slave who’s been AP'ing on the side for about 8 years. I play blackjack, VP, and other games where an edge can be found, and I read up on all of them. Books, websites, radio shows (all one of them), forums, online chats, I’ve communicated with and learned from plenty of players over the years, from the well known and respected to other unknown part timers like myself. Your tales paint a clear picture of what it takes to be a lone wolf hustler. I’ve found them very beneficial as I weigh out my own future as an AP. Sometimes the stories say I’m ready to make the leap. Other times they tell me to stick with the day job. Keep hustling, Mickey, and keep writing.
>
> >
>
ma18ks, don't give up you're day job. Dont't give up anthing like that to be someone like me. I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You must understand the loneliness involved of being someone like me. If you can't tolerate the lonliness then you need to find another trade. vpFREE is a release for me. A release from the God forsaken lonliness of what i do.

Thanks for sharing Mickey. There are many of us wage slaves who romanticize your lifestyle and wish we had the skills and or cajones to do it ourselves. I hope that the next time you are feeling lonely you can take some solace in knowing that many of us envy and respect the way you live even if we have no clue how tough it really is. Peace.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#12

Thanks for the advise, Mickey. Do understand that your honesty about the negative aspects of the lifestyle are part of what make your stories so valuable. The finds and the big scores are offset by the not so enviable aspects of the job - unlike the Hollywood / Kevin Spacey bullshit interpretation. This side of the story is crucial for folks like myself. Like I said before, keep writing. If vpFREE is a release for you, I'm glad to be part of it. If you or any others ever suffer the delusion that a career in my field is a good idea, I'll be happy to talk you out of that :slight_smile:

···

ma18ks, don't give up you're day job. Dont't give up anthing like that to be someone like me. I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You must understand the loneliness involved of being someone like me. If you can't tolerate the lonliness then you need to find another trade. vpFREE is a release for me. A release from the God forsaken lonliness of what i do.

#13

Thanks, guys. The holidays were pretty tough this year, mainly because I ran into someone. But I've got a plan now. I'm always better when I have a plan.

There are definitely drawbacks to what I do. One of the drawbacks is women. About 4 years ago there was a nice little blond coming around to see me. One day she asked me what I did for a living. But stupid me, instead of saying "risk arbitrageur," I said professional gambler. She had an ex-husband that went to Las Vegas, caught lightning in a bottle, and hit a $50,000 jackpot. He was broke a few days later. She detested gamblers and never came back around to see me.

I had a nice girlfriend here for a while. We broke up a couple of years ago over stupid stuff. She took up with someone else and I took up with a girl in Missoula. The Missoula girl was an ex-stripper. Just because she didn't strip anymore didn't mean she lost her skill at pounding a man for his money. I pulled the plug on that romance and was tickled pink to be a happy bachelor again.

That is, until New Year's Eve. I ran into my old girlfriend. We had a pleasant conversation. We just talked about dumb stuff like what we've been up to lately....and friends we have in commmon. I'm a proud man and I didn't do what I should have done. But for her I can shove my pride. The next time I run into her she is going to get my phone number written in the palm of her hand.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ma18ks" <89109.nv@...> wrote:

Thanks for the advise, Mickey. Do understand that your honesty about the negative aspects of the lifestyle are part of what make your stories so valuable. The finds and the big scores are offset by the not so enviable aspects of the job - unlike the Hollywood / Kevin Spacey bullshit interpretation. This side of the story is crucial for folks like myself. Like I said before, keep writing. If vpFREE is a release for you, I'm glad to be part of it. If you or any others ever suffer the delusion that a career in my field is a good idea, I'll be happy to talk you out of that :slight_smile:

>

#14

The worst part of making that leap is you are about 10 years late to the party (as far as those unique plays mickey was/is making). Them Indian Rezzes were the last frontier and have wised up considerably in the last decade. There's always Nevada, but it would be a grind these days. The best route would be learning to be a jack of all trades AP.
Add poker,bj and sports to your game. There are bigger edges in sports than most machine players would have you think.

"Ive found them very beneficial as I
weigh out my own future as an AP. Sometimes the stories say Im ready to make the leap. Other times they tell me to stick with the day job. Keep hustling, Mickey, and keep writing."

#15

Thanks, Don. I fully agree with the jack of all trades concept. BJ is still a good play (contrary to many opinions), but heat and overexposure can severely cut into your hours. Juicy machine plays still pop up, but are inconsistent. Poker is always there, but at my skill level and BR, only good for about $20/hr. And I have a handful of sports bets that I've figured out, but these only come up a few times per years. If I made the leap, I'd have to be a nimble player, living in LV but spending some time on the road too.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don parks" <donparks21@...> wrote:
The best route would be learning to be a jack of all trades AP.
Add poker,bj and sports to your game. There are bigger edges in sports than most machine players would have you think.

#16

>
>
ma18ks, don't give up you're day job. Dont't give up anthing like that to be someone like me. I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You must understand the loneliness involved of being someone like me. If you can't tolerate the lonliness then you need to find another trade. vpFREE is a release for me. A release from the God forsaken lonliness of what i do.

ma18ks, one of the negative aspects is you can't count on plays being there tomorrow. When a town dries up you have to move on and look for plays elsewhere. Here's an incomplete list of gambling towns I've worked in the last 20 years:

Deadwood
Cripple Creek
Blackhawk
Albuquerque
Tama
Mount Pleasant
Laughlin
Las Vegas
Mesquite
Reno
Tahoe
Fernley
Fallon
Elko
Ely
Wendover
St. Charles
Blaine
Spanaway
Marysville

A stranger in a town full of strangers.

more later....

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> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#17

Wow, in Marysville there's only Gold Country and Feather Falls...hmm...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
> >
> ma18ks, don't give up you're day job. Dont't give up anthing like that to be someone like me. I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You must understand the loneliness involved of being someone like me. If you can't tolerate the lonliness then you need to find another trade. vpFREE is a release for me. A release from the God forsaken lonliness of what i do.
>
>
ma18ks, one of the negative aspects is you can't count on plays being there tomorrow. When a town dries up you have to move on and look for plays elsewhere. Here's an incomplete list of gambling towns I've worked in the last 20 years:

Deadwood
Cripple Creek
Blackhawk
Albuquerque
Tama
Mount Pleasant
Laughlin
Las Vegas
Mesquite
Reno
Tahoe
Fernley
Fallon
Elko
Ely
Wendover
St. Charles
Blaine
Spanaway
Marysville

A stranger in a town full of strangers.

more later....

#18

Wrong Marysville....Marysville, Washington. Tulalip Indian Reservation. It was a 4-8 Stud 8 gig.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:

Wow, in Marysville there's only Gold Country and Feather Falls...hmm...

#19

>

Wrong Marysville....Marysville, Washington. Tulalip Indian Reservation. It was a 4-8 Stud 8 gig.

Washington is one of my favorite states. I've spent lots of time there in the past. To bad all they have is that class 2 crap. But there WERE some Booms at Tulalip. If you know how to play Stud 8 and find a loose passive game, grab a seat. It's like playing an ATM machine. The cards are just too unforgiving on the bad players. That's how it was at Marysville about 10 years ago.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote: