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An example of randomness (little or no vp)

The purpose of the post is to share with others how I **suspected**
when a slot game is "not random." Anyone can apply this technique
to vp, but that is not the thrust of the post.

The game is a slot machine called "Wheel of Fortune Triple Action"
http://www.igtonline.com/megajackpots/new_games/wof_video_slots.html

The key point is the following "You select from the two rows of
tiles at the bottom of the screen to reveal letters or a pointer in
the three puzzles." There are 20 tiles, of which 15 are consider
good and 5 are consider bad. The difference is that a bad tile
immediately ends the bonus round and limits the winning amount.

The math - this is called sampling without replacement because each
exposed tile does not get thrown back to the original pool, i.e. on
each succesive pick, the odds of getting a bad tile increases,
respectively. On average, a player should pick 2.5 good tiles.
Sometimes, you pick one good tile, sometimes, you pick 6 good tiles,
etc, but on average, **assuming the tiles are random**, you should
average 2.5 good tiles.

The first time I played this game, I was having fun picking tiles
(reminds of Jackpot Party) so I wasn't thinking about keeping
statistics. 3 weeks later, I decided to keep statistics and when I
replayed the game, I notice something was different. I hit a total
of 8 bonus rounds and the first 4 times I hit a bad tile on my
first try (i.e. busted out the first tile). In fact, I hit a bad
tile on the first attempt in 6 of the 8 bonus rounds. I hit 4 tiles
(i.e. 3 good tiles followed by a bad tile) once and 2 tiles once.
It soon became obvious the bonus round **could be** rigged.

I kept choosing the same tile (or same sequence of tiles) to control
for the game. The probability of me hitting a bad tile on the first
shot was 25% and that occurred 4 times in a row? Additionally, that
occurred 6 of 8 times? I went home and ran an excel spreadsheet
using the HYPGEOMDIST function, and here are the exact probabilites
(number of successful trials in a row out of the same number of
trials [i.e. picking good tiles in a row before a bad tile], and
associate probabilities) - note the sum of the success is 2.5,
which is the average number of tiles to be chosen:

1 0.7500000
2 0.5526316
3 0.3991228
4 0.2817337
5 0.1936920
6 0.1291280
7 0.0830108
8 0.0510836
9 0.0297988
10 0.0162539
11 0.0081269
12 0.0036120
13 0.0013545
14 0.0003870
15 0.0000645

Sum: 2.5000000

So how did I **suspect** the game wasn't random? I quit playing
and observe other players, who were also experiencing the same
problem of busting out on the first tile. The probability of busting
out on the first tile for 4 straight times is (1/4)^4 or 0.0039;
and, the probability of 6 of 8 trials busted out on the first tile
is 0.0038 (here, I used Binomdist function set to false). Do you see
the pattern?

For VP, given enough observations of hands played and winning hands
(i.e. quads, FH, FL, ST, and Trips), you can apply this technique
for vp, and the results should help support where a game is random
or not.

Lastly, you can never prove a game is random or not random with 100%
certainity, but you can make a very strong case.

I know nothing about this game but "generally" if after the bonus round is
over it shows you the values of the spots you did not pick then it is
random. If it does not show you the values afterwards then the outcome has
already been determined before you even start picking.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: fordscks [mailto:jason_c…@…com]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] An example of randomness (little or no vp)

The purpose of the post is to share with others how I **suspected**
when a slot game is "not random." Anyone can apply this technique
to vp, but that is not the thrust of the post.

The game is a slot machine called "Wheel of Fortune Triple Action"
http://www.igtonline.com/megajackpots/new_games/wof_video_slots.html

The key point is the following "You select from the two rows of
tiles at the bottom of the screen to reveal letters or a pointer in
the three puzzles." There are 20 tiles, of which 15 are consider
good and 5 are consider bad. The difference is that a bad tile
immediately ends the bonus round and limits the winning amount.

The math - this is called sampling without replacement because each
exposed tile does not get thrown back to the original pool, i.e. on
each succesive pick, the odds of getting a bad tile increases,
respectively. On average, a player should pick 2.5 good tiles.
Sometimes, you pick one good tile, sometimes, you pick 6 good tiles,
etc, but on average, **assuming the tiles are random**, you should
average 2.5 good tiles.

The first time I played this game, I was having fun picking tiles
(reminds of Jackpot Party) so I wasn't thinking about keeping
statistics. 3 weeks later, I decided to keep statistics and when I
replayed the game, I notice something was different. I hit a total
of 8 bonus rounds and the first 4 times I hit a bad tile on my
first try (i.e. busted out the first tile). In fact, I hit a bad
tile on the first attempt in 6 of the 8 bonus rounds. I hit 4 tiles
(i.e. 3 good tiles followed by a bad tile) once and 2 tiles once.
It soon became obvious the bonus round **could be** rigged.

I kept choosing the same tile (or same sequence of tiles) to control
for the game. The probability of me hitting a bad tile on the first
shot was 25% and that occurred 4 times in a row? Additionally, that
occurred 6 of 8 times? I went home and ran an excel spreadsheet
using the HYPGEOMDIST function, and here are the exact probabilites
(number of successful trials in a row out of the same number of
trials [i.e. picking good tiles in a row before a bad tile], and
associate probabilities) - note the sum of the success is 2.5,
which is the average number of tiles to be chosen:

1 0.7500000
2 0.5526316
3 0.3991228
4 0.2817337
5 0.1936920
6 0.1291280
7 0.0830108
8 0.0510836
9 0.0297988
10 0.0162539
11 0.0081269
12 0.0036120
13 0.0013545
14 0.0003870
15 0.0000645

Sum: 2.5000000

So how did I **suspect** the game wasn't random? I quit playing
and observe other players, who were also experiencing the same
problem of busting out on the first tile. The probability of busting
out on the first tile for 4 straight times is (1/4)^4 or 0.0039;
and, the probability of 6 of 8 trials busted out on the first tile
is 0.0038 (here, I used Binomdist function set to false). Do you see
the pattern?

For VP, given enough observations of hands played and winning hands
(i.e. quads, FH, FL, ST, and Trips), you can apply this technique
for vp, and the results should help support where a game is random
or not.

Lastly, you can never prove a game is random or not random with 100%
certainity, but you can make a very strong case.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it could be random but not equally weighted, which is legal in nevada
for slots that don't involve a deck of cards
the wheel in wheel of fortune is random, but definitely not equally
weighted, that just missed slot must be weighted about 50%
in nevada, if a slot is based on a deck of cards, it must be random
and each card equally weighted (aka video poker, video bj)

class III:
nevada video poker: random and each card equally weighted
nevada slots not card based: random but can be unequally weighted

class II:
winner centrally determined (implies strategy doesn't matter), could
be random but equal weighting is unlikely

of course casinos would prefer class II because it gives them much
better control

I know nothing about this game but "generally" if after the bonus

round is

over it shows you the values of the spots you did not pick then it

is

random. If it does not show you the values afterwards then the

outcome has

already been determined before you even start picking.

It's an IGT game, and the game does reveal all the tiles after the
first bad tile was chosen. That act of revealing the tiles alone
doesn't prove anything. Keep in mind this is a slot machine such
that the bonus round does NOT have to be random to begin with. I was
asserting the bonus round used to be random, and now has been
changed.

The gist of my post is to show that in the case of slots, the
manufacturer can change the payback by altering the game without the
player's knowledge ahead of time. Or, the player like myself found
out after the fact.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Randy C" <randyc@U...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"

Here are the main points (my previous post tries to focus on using
math to detect randomness, but somehow it got hijacked)

1) I am asserting the game's bonus round used to be random, and now
has been changed. I suspect the bonus round is no longer random
because the distribution of the tiles has been altered, and this was
confirmed by running some statistics. Keep in mind, I wasn't the
only player experiencing the bust out on the first tile syndrome --
other players were also experiencing it and that lead me to run the
tests.

Could the game have being non-random when I first played it? I
highly doubt I would have pursed the game if everyone was busting
out on the first tile. The first time I saw and played the game,
there were a huge distribution in the number of good tiles chosen.
Clearly, the bonus round payoffs have been altered since they are
used to help determine the game return.

2) The manufacturer is IGT, so let's not waste time arguing about
class III vs class II et al. For those who do not know IGT, it is
the largest slot manufacturer in the US, so I highly doubt they
would "rig" the machine.

3) A slot machine based on cards DOES NOT have to be random. I know
this to be true as I have worked on these types of games. So long as
it doesn't say it uses a standard 52 card deck (or something to that
effect, etc), it can be a slot machine where the cards are treated
like symbols, and the game manufacturer can weigh the distribution
of the symbols.

<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

it could be random but not equally weighted, which is legal in

nevada

for slots that don't involve a deck of cards
the wheel in wheel of fortune is random, but definitely not

equally

weighted, that just missed slot must be weighted about 50%
in nevada, if a slot is based on a deck of cards, it must be

random

and each card equally weighted (aka video poker, video bj)

class III:
nevada video poker: random and each card equally weighted
nevada slots not card based: random but can be unequally weighted

class II:
winner centrally determined (implies strategy doesn't matter),

could

···

be random but equal weighting is unlikely

of course casinos would prefer class II because it gives them much
better control

I suggest that tomorrow you call Gaming and ask for enforcement. I suspect
that they will tell you if the values are revealed then they must be random.

The reason I believe this is that there is a catch-all regulation that
prohibits manufacturers from doing anything that brings disrepute on the
gaming industry or the State of Nevada. This clause is why they can't make
all or most losing spins look like near-misses of top jackpots. The same
reasoning would prohibit them from changing the values behind the tiles
before they show them all.

Much as our paranoia as players make us want to believe that unlikely
losing streaks prove we are being cheated the industry is honest and major
manufacturers are not going to risk their businesses.

Bill

It's an IGT game, and the game does reveal all the tiles after the
first bad tile was chosen. That act of revealing the tiles alone
doesn't prove anything. Keep in mind this is a slot machine such
that the bonus round does NOT have to be random to begin with. I was
asserting the bonus round used to be random, and now has been
changed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

2) The manufacturer is IGT, so let's not waste time arguing about
class III vs class II et al. For those who do not know IGT, it is
the largest slot manufacturer in the US, so I highly doubt they
would "rig" the machine.

Personally, I consider class II machines to be rigged, and IGT and
Bally's are manufacturing class II machines that look just like their
class III Nevada legal machines
Is Nevada Gaming Control going to put a stop to that?
Highly unlikely, because IGT is the largest slot manufacturer in the
world, and the largest private employer in the state, etc.

3) A slot machine based on cards DOES NOT have to be random. I know
this to be true as I have worked on these types of games. So long

as

it doesn't say it uses a standard 52 card deck (or something to

that

effect, etc), it can be a slot machine where the cards are treated
like symbols, and the game manufacturer can weigh the distribution
of the symbols.

All legal gambling in Nevada must be random! Originally all gambling
was also even weighted. The original mechanical reel slots invented
in san francisco were even weighted. IGT invented the electro-
mechanical reel slot, in these the result is randomly determined
electronically and the mechanical reels are only used as indicators,
in other words the reels are weighted and are not free spun, each
symbol does not have the same probability of occuring. The modern all
electronic games are likewise random but not equal weighted, with the
exception of games that represent existing casino games, so, for
example, video poker, video blackjack, video keno must be random
*and* equally weighted.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "fordscks" <jason_c_vp@y...> wrote:

nightoftheiguana2000 wrote: ”IGT is the largest slot manufacturer in the
world, and the largest private employer in the state, etc.”

Really? Larger than, say, MGM-Mirage or Lockheed-Martin?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]