Okay, maybe I just fell off the cattle truck, but I think I've found
a JoB variation I can play without nodding off. All American is
actually fun. I've been pouring through the database pages. Is it
really only to be found at LVH and nowhere else in LV? Is it new or
on the endangered species list?
And if it's at a reservation casino, is it called All Native
American? (okay, that one went too far. Sorry.)
Endangered Species, unfortunately .
Regards
A.P.
----- Original Message -----
From: vpdeuces
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] All American
Okay, maybe I just fell off the cattle truck, but I think I've found
a JoB variation I can play without nodding off. All American is
actually fun. I've been pouring through the database pages. Is it
really only to be found at LVH and nowhere else in LV? Is it new or
on the endangered species list?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpdeuces wrote:
"And if it's at a reservation casino, is it called All Native
American? (okay, that one went too far. Sorry.)"
LOL Definately brought a smile to my face. 
Liz
This HAS to be one game that's disappearing due to lack of play. The
common tourist has no interest in it at all as well as most of the
locals.
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth [mailto:msli…@…com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] All American
vpdeuces wrote:
"And if it's at a reservation casino, is it called All Native
American? (okay, that one went too far. Sorry.)"
LOL Definately brought a smile to my face.
Liz
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
it's found more outside of NV
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
This HAS to be one game that's disappearing due to lack of play. The
common tourist has no interest in it at all as well as most of the
locals.Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth [mailto:mslizrn@d…]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] All Americanvpdeuces wrote:
"And if it's at a reservation casino, is it called All Native
American? (okay, that one went too far. Sorry.)"LOL Definately brought a smile to my face.
Liz
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Scot Krause wrote:
This HAS to be one game that's disappearing due to lack of play. The
common tourist has no interest in it at all as well as most of the
locals.
Let it pop up in $.50 and the fleas (er, pros) would come crawling out
of the woodwork. It'd be a very nice play when things are slow.
- H.
Let it pop up in $.50 and the fleas (er, pros) would come crawling out
of the woodwork. It'd be a very nice play when things are slow.
- H.
Exactly what I said, Harry. Only pro's and knowledgeable players are
mildly interested, so the game will become extinct. It does not receive
enough regular and tourist play.
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Porter [mailto:harry.por…@…net]
This game is one of my favorites, but really difficult to find. Is
there any other VP game that is more difficult to learn to play
properly? I can't think of one. I just got back from playing in
Laughlin, and put lots of time in on the 6 machines at the River
Palms (the only ones in town). I never saw anyone playing the game
during the entire weekend. It was the same story 3 weeks ago in a
previous trip. I don't understand why VP players ignore this great
play.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
This HAS to be one game that's disappearing due to lack of play. The
common tourist has no interest in it at all as well as most of the
locals.Scot
I believe the Multi-Strike form of several games could be as difficult to learn as regular All American, yet the Multi-Strikes are all in play in every casino I've visited lately.
carlos
hamstockman <AB6PQ@aol.com> wrote:
This game is one of my favorites, but really difficult to find. Is
there any other VP game that is more difficult to learn to play
properly? I can't think of one. I just got back from playing in
Laughlin, and put lots of time in on the 6 machines at the River
Palms (the only ones in town). I never saw anyone playing the game
during the entire weekend. It was the same story 3 weeks ago in a
previous trip. I don't understand why VP players ignore this great
play.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't think that we're suggesting that the degree of difficulty is the
key. There is no way the excitement level of Multi Strike can be
compared to a single line game of AA.
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Lebron [mailto:caleb…@…com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:30 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: All American
I believe the Multi-Strike form of several games could be as difficult
to learn as regular All American, yet the Multi-Strikes are all in play
in every casino I've visited lately.
carlos
hamstockman <AB6PQ@aol.com> wrote:
This game is one of my favorites, but really difficult to find. Is
there any other VP game that is more difficult to learn to play
properly? I can't think of one. I just got back from playing in
Laughlin, and put lots of time in on the 6 machines at the River
Palms (the only ones in town). I never saw anyone playing the game
during the entire weekend. It was the same story 3 weeks ago in a
previous trip. I don't understand why VP players ignore this great
play.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Scot Krause wrote:
I don't think that we're suggesting that the degree of difficulty is
the key.
I think you're mostly on target here, Scot, but I wouldn't cross out
the difficulty factor all together.
If we look at where it might be offered at the quarter level, it's
reasonable to assume any casino with FPDW might be willing to
inventory AA given the similar returns.
One barrier is that there's a limited subset of mfrs whose machines
feature it. I've been told that Bally Gaming doesn't hold proprietary
ownership in the game design (i.e. it's been seen on other machine
makes), but their multigames appear to have the lion's share of the
installed base.
I've never seen it on an IGT machine and IGT has a strong foothold in
most casinos. Adding the game to a casino floor might simply require
a significant investment.
On the other hand, many casinos feature Bally machines -- particularly
if they offer pick'em (not sure I've seen full pay pick'em and AA on
the same machine though). A key factor in a casino's addition of the
game is going to be player demand.
And here's the rub. Deuces, with 4 wild cards, is a very appealing
game to the average player. The play is downright entertaining. And
the decision making is far more common sense than AA (hold suited {9
10 K} over a pair of 9's? ... right.}
If I were looking for a game to tout to a novice player there's no
question I'd push Deuces. And demand is all about the uneducated
masses, not the elite minority who know's it's stuff.
There's no doubt that there are a handful of popular vp writers who
could start beating the drums to create an appetite for AA. But they
won't in good conscience. The average player is much better served by
FPDW than AA, even if AA has a strong return that can absorb a decent
degree of playing error cost and still prove favorable over most other
games.
Bottom line, AA is a bit of an orphan.
For myself, I'd it under circumstances that would impair net return by
1%. Frankly, I really get my rocks off on the strategy. To play it
with top accuracy requires an attentiveness and a brain with all
neurons firing to an extent unparalleled by any other game. It's a
game I'll never tire of.
- Harry
There's no doubt that there are a handful of popular vp writers who
could start beating the drums to create an appetite for AA.
There is no reason to do so! It would only attract advantage players
who actually read the columns and not the masses that the casino needs
to play and games and keep them active! Multi-strike WILL attract
tourists! AA will not. This is a simple concept. Let's not make it more
than what it is.
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Porter [mailto:harry.por…@…net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:00 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All American
This game is one of my favorites, but really difficult to find. Is
there any other VP game that is more difficult to learn to play
properly? I can't think of one.
Try JW2 on for size. In addition to All American the LVH has JW2 for $1.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hamstockman" <AB6PQ@a...> wrote:
I just got back from playing in
Laughlin, and put lots of time in on the 6 machines at the River
Palms (the only ones in town). I never saw anyone playing the game
during the entire weekend. It was the same story 3 weeks ago in a
previous trip. I don't understand why VP players ignore this great
play.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
> This HAS to be one game that's disappearing due to lack of play. The
> common tourist has no interest in it at all as well as most of the
> locals.
>
> Scot
I believe the Multi-Strike form of several games could be as
difficult to learn as regular All American, yet the Multi-Strikes are
all in play in every casino I've visited lately.
No, not even close. Take Multi-Strike NSUD for example. The game has
been thoroughly analyzed and the paytable recipe for generating
strategy charts via Frugal is well known. Even if you don't take
charts with you to the casino you can approximate the close calls
reasonably well on lines 1x-4x by just remembering that 4x leans more
towards normal NSUD whereas 1x & 2x lean more towards advancement. 8x
and "free rides" are played at normal NSUD strategy of course. I also
studied Dancer's article on Multi-Strike JOB and didn't find that
particularly difficult neither even though I don't play JOB. All
American in contrast is really brutal. Even after spending a lot of
time practicing I found that when I quizzed myself my error rate was
unacceptably high. Don't have that problem when putting in the same
amount of work on other games. All American has one of the 2 telltale
signs of being a questionable game: the precise strategy charts are
long and unwieldy. (The other sign is 5 coin Royals greater than 4k -
that usually makes for a very streaky game. That doesn't apply here
though.)
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Lebron <calebr0n@y...> wrote:
carlos
hamstockman <AB6PQ@a...> wrote:
This game is one of my favorites, but really difficult to find. Is
there any other VP game that is more difficult to learn to play
properly? I can't think of one. I just got back from playing in
Laughlin, and put lots of time in on the 6 machines at the River
Palms (the only ones in town). I never saw anyone playing the game
during the entire weekend. It was the same story 3 weeks ago in a
previous trip. I don't understand why VP players ignore this great
play.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i think all it would take to promote AA would be to put a sign on it:
100.72% return with optimum play
possibly also a sign stating:
these machines are so loose* we can only offer them with reduced or no
comp
*(with optimum play)
one machine per person, 4 hours max play per day, no teams, strictly
enforced
make sure the best cocktail waitresses are constantly pushing
cocktails and free shrimp cocktails, something like that
if you want to get fancy you could offer a free introductory class,
something simple just to give people general ideas so they don't get
completely blown away
you could also run AA tournaments
you could make a "basic strategy" card like the bj cards and
distribute them freely
you could make them nickel machines 1 to 100 bets per hand, full pay
for any bet, maybe have that singer guy give a class in how to step
bets, maybe even teach kelly betting
...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
From: Harry Porter [mailto:harry.porter@v…]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:00 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All AmericanThere's no doubt that there are a handful of popular vp writers who
could start beating the drums to create an appetite for AA.>There is no reason to do so! It would only attract advantage
players
who actually read the columns and not the masses that the casino
needs
to play and games and keep them active! Multi-strike WILL attract
tourists! AA will not. This is a simple concept. Let's not make it
more
-----Original Message-----
than what it is.Scot
I think we're still missing the point. Why would they want to do all
this when they can just change the game to something people want? Slots
go out all the time and are replaced by new games that customers want.
Same for vp!
Scot
-----Original Message-----
From: nightoftheiguana2000 [mailto:nightoftheiguana2…@…com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:56 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All American
i think all it would take to promote AA would be to put a sign on it:
100.72% return with optimum play
possibly also a sign stating:
these machines are so loose* we can only offer them with reduced or no
comp
*(with optimum play)
one machine per person, 4 hours max play per day, no teams, strictly
enforced
make sure the best cocktail waitresses are constantly pushing
cocktails and free shrimp cocktails, something like that
if you want to get fancy you could offer a free introductory class,
something simple just to give people general ideas so they don't get
completely blown away
you could also run AA tournaments
you could make a "basic strategy" card like the bj cards and
distribute them freely
you could make them nickel machines 1 to 100 bets per hand, full pay
for any bet, maybe have that singer guy give a class in how to step
bets, maybe even teach kelly betting
...
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Porter [mailto:harry.porter@v…]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:00 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All AmericanThere's no doubt that there are a handful of popular vp writers who
could start beating the drums to create an appetite for AA.>There is no reason to do so! It would only attract advantage
players
who actually read the columns and not the masses that the casino
needs
to play and games and keep them active! Multi-strike WILL attract
tourists! AA will not. This is a simple concept. Let's not make it
more
than what it is.
Scot
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
Scot Krause wrote:
> I don't think that we're suggesting that the degree of difficulty
is
> the key.
if they offer pick'em (not sure I've seen full pay pick'em and AA on
the same machine though).
atlantis RENO has (or had) AA PE &10/7/80 db on the same machines
the ones that were shut down last time i was there, will be back home
09/11 & will check to see if there still there.
Strictly Sluts er Slots had an article about how to play AA a few
months back with a statergy chart, anybody remember what month??
Skip??
M J Perry
because video poker customers want loose video poker
look at the most popular games:
jacks or better, deuces wild, joker poker, bonus poker ...
these games have been around for a long while
customers who just want to be entertained play the latest reel slots
customers who want to win play video poker
most don't have a winning game, but they think they do, same as in
blackjack and live action poker
what video poker customers want most is loose video poker
casinos that exploit that almost always come out well ahead
but it goes in cycles, almost every successful video poker casino ends
up tightening up their games figuring they can make even more profit,
then when all their players leave for the competition who just put in
loose video poker they sit around and scratch their heads and wonder
why - do you think we should put in new carpet? maybe some more reel
slots ...
what video poker customers want most is loose video poker
casinos that exploit that almost always come out well ahead
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w...>
wrote:
I think we're still missing the point. Why would they want to do
all
this when they can just change the game to something people want?
Slots
go out all the time and are replaced by new games that customers
want.
Same for vp!
Scot
From: nightoftheiguana2000 [mailto:nightoftheiguana2000@y…]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:56 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All Americani think all it would take to promote AA would be to put a sign on
it:
100.72% return with optimum play
possibly also a sign stating:
these machines are so loose* we can only offer them with reduced or
no
comp
*(with optimum play)
one machine per person, 4 hours max play per day, no teams, strictly
enforced
make sure the best cocktail waitresses are constantly pushing
cocktails and free shrimp cocktails, something like that
if you want to get fancy you could offer a free introductory class,
something simple just to give people general ideas so they don't get
completely blown away
you could also run AA tournaments
you could make a "basic strategy" card like the bj cards and
distribute them freely
you could make them nickel machines 1 to 100 bets per hand, full pay
for any bet, maybe have that singer guy give a class in how to step
bets, maybe even teach kelly betting
...— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Scot Krause" <krauseinvegas@w…>
wrote:
>
>
> From: Harry Porter [mailto:harry.porter@v…]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:00 AM
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: All American
>
>
> There's no doubt that there are a handful of popular vp writers
who
> could start beating the drums to create an appetite for AA.
>
>
>
> >There is no reason to do so! It would only attract advantage
players
> who actually read the columns and not the masses that the casino
needs
> to play and games and keep them active! Multi-strike WILL attract
> tourists! AA will not. This is a simple concept. Let's not make
it
-----Original Message-----
> -----Original Message-----
more
> than what it is.
>
> ScotvpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
"A friend of mine recently returned from Las Vegas where he was
surprised to discover many, many All American Poker games were sitting
idle. That's somewhat understandable, since there are a lot of
full-pay Deuces Wild games there and All American is viewed as being
much, much harder to play. But these games have similar long-term
returns ( 100.76% for 15/9/5 Deuces and 100.72% for All American) and
even similar "risk" as measured by variance: 25.83 for Deuces and
26.80 for All American. But, it's easier to learn the proper playing
strategy for Deuces, so that's the game of choice for pros and savvy
'recreational' players in Las Vegas. In fact, that's why my friend
went there, to play Deuces. But there's nary a full-pay Deuces game to
be found outside Las Vegas, yet All American is at least available in
many areas, if not plentiful. Here in my home base of St. Louis, MO,
All American is available in nickel, quarter and dollar formats; it's
also in Tunica, Kansas City and, as I mentioned before, in Las Vegas.
But it's not very popular because most people lose at the game and
that's due, of course, to the fact that they play it incorrectly.
Since All American is a variation of Jacks or Better, most people
approach it with a similar strategy and that's a gigantic mistake. We
know this by performing a rather simple calculation which you should
know. ..."