I have been practicing All American for an upcoming trip and there is
one hold that I do not understand. Every strategy card I've seen shows
AJ unsuited higher than J alone. Playing, I get an error message more
often than not if I hold AJ. I've tried creating hands to see if
straight or flush penalties or specific cards discarded make the
difference but I cannot find any consistent "rule". It's only a low
error, but does anyone know why the J is sometimes better than AJ
unsuited?
All American Question
dawne_gordon wrote:
I have been practicing All American for an upcoming trip and there is
one hold that I do not understand. Every strategy card I've seen
shows AJ unsuited higher than J alone.Playing, I get an error message more often than not if I hold AJ.
I've tried creating hands to see if straight or flush penalties or
specific cards discarded make the difference but I cannot find any
consistent "rule". It's only a low error, but does anyone know why
the J is sometimes better than AJ unsuited?
What comes into play in identifying the optimal hold is a situation
known as a "penalty" card. vpFREE FAQ defines a penalty card as: "A
discarded card from a dealt VP hand, whose absence from the deck has a
negative effect on secondary redraw hands."
In other words, it's a card that, were it still in the draw deck
rather than having been discarded, would provide another opportunity
to complete a winning hand on the draw.
An example is an unsuited T discard when you hold QK. You have one
less straight possibility on the draw then if you were discarding,
say, a 3 instead. The T is a "penalty" (some use the word
"interference") to the QK hold and reduces that hold value vs. the
case of the 3 discard.
···
-----------
Game strategies come in 2 basic "flavors" -- basic and advanced.
Basic strategies ignore penalty card considerations; advanced
strategies take them into account (and are, consequently, more complex).
Frankly, penalties factor very, very lightly into vp economics. They
impact the absolute optimal strategy for a game, but ignoring them
typcially impairs ER by a fraction of .01%.
Therefore, some choose to simply go with what basic strategy dictates.
That's certainly a very sound approach until you have a game down
pretty darn cold. A single "basic" error will negate numerous
correctly played penalty situations.
-----------
Concerning the AJ hold in All American, when every possible hand is
considered, always holding both cards will be a stronger strategy than
just holding the J.
However, if there aren't signficant penalties to the lone J, then
holding the J is optimal. There are two type of card penalties:
flush and straight.
Any flush penalty to the J in the hand (a same suited card) will make
the AJ the stronger hold. Any "near" straight penalty (9,T) will also
favor AJ. Finally 2 straight penalties (7,8,9,T) will also favor AJ.
In absence of these, the lone J will almost always be favored (I'm
hedging -- perfect play strategy can occasionally involved other even
less significant nuances).
- Harry
Two simple rules to follow:
1. If there is a 9 unsuited with the J , always hold A J.
2. If there is a straight PLUS a flush penalty to the Jack hold AJ. Thus with no penalty card or only 1 penalty card, hold the J only.
Randi.d
···
----- Original Message ----- From: "dawne_gordon" <ddgordon@shaw.ca>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] All American Question
I have been practicing All American for an upcoming trip and there is
one hold that I do not understand. Every strategy card I've seen shows
AJ unsuited higher than J alone. Playing, I get an error message more
often than not if I hold AJ. I've tried creating hands to see if
straight or flush penalties or specific cards discarded make the
difference but I cannot find any consistent "rule". It's only a low
error, but does anyone know why the J is sometimes better than AJ
unsuited?vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
randi.d wrote:
Two simple rules to follow:
1. If there is a 9 unsuited with the J , always hold A J.
2. If there is a straight PLUS a flush penalty to the Jack hold AJ.
Thus with no penalty card or only 1 penalty card, hold the J only.
Your guidelines are more accurate than my post.
My source was VP Strategy Master's advanced strategy, which admittedly
is modestly inaccurate in some very fine penalty situation. (However,
I know of no automated tool that generates stronger strategies that
factor penalties.)
I apologize for the confusion -- it's been a couple years since I've
actively played AA and I'm cold on the finer points.
- Harry
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
randi.d wrote:
> Two simple rules to follow:
> 1. If there is a 9 unsuited with the J , always hold A J.
> 2. If there is a straight PLUS a flush penalty to the Jack hold
AJ.
> Thus with no penalty card or only 1 penalty card, hold the J
only.
Your guidelines are more accurate than my post.
My source was VP Strategy Master's advanced strategy, which
admittedly
is modestly inaccurate in some very fine penalty situation.
(However,
I know of no automated tool that generates stronger strategies that
factor penalties.)I apologize for the confusion -- it's been a couple years since
I've
actively played AA and I'm cold on the finer points.
- Harry
if you have the AJ option you are always going to have a str8
penalty card to the J.
If you have a single flush penalty as your only penalty you will
always hold J only ( as AJ is no longer an option)unless it is a
Str8 flush card save the 7 suited (or SF2 3 inside which you never
hold anyway ever unless it is also RF2 ie ATs)
my Home made strategy card which has been par boiled over many many
months and trials reads.
KTs
KQo, KJo -no 9os
SF 2i 1hi 0 St Pen no A2s or A3s
KQ , KJ, w/9os
Jack 0 Fl Pen or 9os
AKos, AQos, AJos
while we are on the subject of A2 and A3 lets discuss their place in
the stratagy.
shall we ?
···
My thanks to both randi.d and Harry Potter for answering my question.
VPSM shows J no flush penalty above AJ unsuited. Following this, I
still got errors until I tried randi.d's 2 rules. I found that J with
a suited 2 to 6 is still greater than AJ unless there is also a 7 to
T straight penalty. (I ignored hi card straight penalties since
different rules then apply.)
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:
randi.d wrote:
> Two simple rules to follow:
> 1. If there is a 9 unsuited with the J , always hold A J.
> 2. If there is a straight PLUS a flush penalty to the Jack hold
AJ.
> Thus with no penalty card or only 1 penalty card, hold the J
only.
Your guidelines are more accurate than my post.
My source was VP Strategy Master's advanced strategy, which
admittedly
is modestly inaccurate in some very fine penalty situation.
(However,
···
I know of no automated tool that generates stronger strategies that
factor penalties.)I apologize for the confusion -- it's been a couple years since I've
actively played AA and I'm cold on the finer points.- Harry