--- In vpFREE@y..., "katcag" <katcag@a...> wrote:
Hate to say this, but refusing to use a players card will keep
you dressed in your clothes. Kat
I am sure I should understand, but I need help.
DWK
Advantage players
I believe that it's a reference to the comment that some advantage players
might have to resort to wearing disguises, as some BJ card counters have
done.
···
--- In vpFREE@y..., "katcag" <katcag@a...> wrote:
> Hate to say this, but refusing to use a players card will keep
you dressed in your clothes. KatI am sure I should understand, but I need help.
DWK
--- In vpFREE@y..., "katcag" <katcag@a...> wrote:
Hate to say this, but refusing to use a players card will keep
you dressed in your clothes.
I am sure I should understand, but I need help.
I think the message here is that if you don't use a
player's card, you can escape the notice of the proposed data
snooping.
Although I agree with that message, it is not exactly
a viable option for the serious player. With the exception of
a few progressives, there are very few if any plays in LV that
pay more than working at McDonalds if you play them without your
card. Casino cash back and mailers are worth as much or more
than the games themselves in terms of ER.
Of course, if they REALLY wanted to kick out the pros,
they could do so in a way that is much simpler than the high
tech method of tracking results. All they have to do is hire
someone to sit in the security booth and watch the players on
camera. When you see someone playing 10/7 DB get KhQh8d7h5s
and hold KQ7 and then a few minutes later they get KsJs7h5s3d
and hold KQ, you know they are highly skilled. Sure, players
could adopt 'cover plays' that don't really harm their edge
enough to hurt. However, a skilled hired game watcher would
not be fooled for long. Spotting pros is not hard. They play
fast, usually long hours, rarely drink alcohol, and they simply
'look' like they know what they are doing. To a large degree
they even dress alike.
When they find these people, they just revoke their
mailers and discontinue added slot club benefits. No need
to bar them and get the nasty publicity.
The whole issue of barring skilled players is really
quite hard to figure. It seems the casinos are not really
all that eager to bar people. It seems to happen, but is
not yet an organized, methodical process. Many well-known
pros are allowed to play and receive benefits. At the
same time, casinos have barred some comparatively harmless
players and even barred those who were not even playing with
an advantage at all. Maybe someday the casinos really will
make an all-out assault on VP pros, but this seems a distant
threat, given the fact that they have had the tools to do
so as soon as the strategies by Frome and that ilk were
published.
I will say that this kind of data gathering is yet
another argument in favor of spreading your play around if
you play full time.
The advantages of spreading your play around are numerous.
This seems like a good time to go ahead and delve into that
topic.
If you only play 10-20K a month at any given casino, it
is going to take them a long time to get enough useful data to
realize you are a skilled player. Even if they don't do that,
you may regret being noticed as a regular player who seems to
come out ahead in the long run.
Getting the 'top' mailers at a small number of places
has 2 drawbacks. First, the benefits at the top are rarely
as good. If we plot benefits as a function of coin in on an
x-y plane, the data in most casinos would form a curve that has
a negative derivative. In other words, it starts out fairly steep,
but tends to flatten out.
The other problem is when one of your base casinos suddenly
decides to cut your benefits. This is usually just caused by
across the board cuts. A recent example is the Fiesta. Without
notice they stopped giving separate mailers for each casino.
For players at the top level at both, this was a nasty cut in
their monthly cash flow. They can move some of that play elsewhere
and restore their overall ER, but it takes 1-3 months to get
the new bounce back money from another casino flowing.
As an extreme example, spreading your play around also
protects you from dishonesty. Sure, it is rare, but if it
happens at a casino you play heavily, the damage can be really
bad. If you spread your play around, the damage will be less
severe.
I have spoken to players who play a large amount of
coin in at a small number of casinos. Some have claimed it
is the best method, but I have never heard one spell out
just why this is so. I know part of the argument is that
casinos 'like' you better if you play a lot and not just on
promotional times. They probably comp you more and you
might get 'extra' goodies. Nevertheless, I have not yet
seen any detailed analysis of this that shows this really
provides a higher overall ER. Even if it does, I think
there is nothing in that view that allows for the fact that
a casino can suddenly decide to cut you off or simply make
sweeping cutbacks to everyone. If someone out there knows
other reasons why playing a lot at a small number of casinos
can be a good choice, please respond.
QZ
When you see someone playing 10/7 DB get KhQh8d7h5s
and hold KQ7 and then a few minutes later they get KsJs7h5s3d
and hold KQ, you know they are highly skilled.
Certainly more skilled than I am in that last example! 
- Steve in LV
Quad Zilla wrote:
When you see someone playing 10/7 DB get KhQh8d7h5s
and hold KQ7 and then a few minutes later they get KsJs7h5s3d
and hold KQ, you know they are highly skilled.
Setting Steve's humor aside, and assuming that in the second example
you intended to write "hold KJ", I'm confused. Isn't "KQ" alone the
better hold in the first example? (Hold the seven only if you're
discarding a straight penalty to the KQ, no?)
Or do I still have a ways to go in my attempts to master 10/7 DB?
- Harry
Dressed in your own clothes, not in disguise because you are an advantage player and trying to stay under the radar like card counters. kat
···
----- Original Message -----
From: deuceswild1000
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Advantage players
--- In vpFREE@y..., "katcag" <katcag@a...> wrote:
> Hate to say this, but refusing to use a players card will keep
you dressed in your clothes. Kat
I am sure I should understand, but I need help.
DWK
vpFREE Home Page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE
vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Quad Zilla wrote:
When you see someone playing 10/7 DB get KhQh8d7h5s
and hold KQ7 and then a few minutes later they get KsJs7h5s3d
and hold KQ, you know they are highly skilled.
Setting Steve's humor aside, and assuming that in the second example
you intended to write "hold KJ", I'm confused. Isn't "KQ" alone the
better hold in the first example? (Hold the seven only if you're
discarding a straight penalty to the KQ, no?)
Or do I still have a ways to go in my attempts to master 10/7 DB?
You are correct Harry.
Sorry about the multiple typos. Let me try again....
When you see someone playing 10/7 DB get KhQh9d7h5s
and hold KQ7 and then a few minutes later they get KsJs7h5s3d
and hold KJ, you know they are highly skilled.
QZ
--- In vpFREE@y..., "Quad Zilla" <quadzilla666@e...> wrote:
I think the message here is that if you don't use a
player's card, you can escape the notice of the proposed data
snooping.Although I agree with that message, it is not exactly
a viable option for the serious player. With the exception of
a few progressives, there are very few if any plays in LV that
pay more than working at McDonalds if you play them without your
card. Casino cash back and mailers are worth as much or more
than the games themselves in terms of ER.
Unfortunately where I live advantage play is not available.
Nonetheless it appeared to me that if you can't use the cashback and
other promotions, then you might as well flipping burgers.
Picture ID's or driver licenses with pictures on them (Oh BTW on of
our Native American casino started putting our picture on our player
card!) are not readily faked, so it seems it is players club or else.
When they find these people, they just revoke their
mailers and discontinue added slot club benefits. No need
to bar them and get the nasty publicity.The whole issue of barring skilled players is really
quite hard to figure. It seems the casinos are not really
all that eager to bar people. It seems to happen, but is
not yet an organized, methodical process. Many well-known
pros are allowed to play and receive benefits. At the
same time, casinos have barred some comparatively harmless
players and even barred those who were not even playing with
an advantage at all. Maybe someday the casinos really will
make an all-out assault on VP pros, but this seems a distant
threat, given the fact that they have had the tools to do
so as soon as the strategies by Frome and that ilk were
published.
Casinos and nature operate in mysterious ways.
DWK