vpFREE2 Forums

Accounting for Wins/Losses for Tax Purposes

#1

12. Accounting for Wins/Losses for Tax Purposes
Date: Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 pm ((PDT))

How do you all account for wins and losses for tax purposes? I've just created
a spreadsheet
in Excel that has the following columns:

Date - Date of Play
Location - Which Casino
Coin-In - Total Cash I Put Into the Machine(s) That Day
Take-Away - Total Cash I Get from the Ticket Redemption Machine, If Any
Gain/Loss - Coin-In Minus Take-Away
Total Gain/Loss - Sum of Gain/Loss Entries

Is there anything else I need to keep track of?

Also, I just got my first W2G from Red Rock the other day (4x Deuces on $.50
LDW). I've
been playing here and there since I moved out to Las Vegas at the start of Feb,
and I've
always used my Boarding Pass Card out there. Would they have a record of my
play since
then so I can start building my playing history? I know I should've started
sooner, but I didn't
expect to play as much as I do now. :wink:

Thanks!!

This has been discussed here recently; most seem to think that a little more info than you are keeping is necessary -- each ticket out (unless they are at a single sit-down) probably represents the end of one session, and the IRS seems to like "session" (not well defined) records.

So - each time you play a given machine, you want your net win/loss for that time, which could make many many sessions per day, while your records appear to be a daily summary only.

The casino will usually be able to provide a record of coin-in, coin-out, handpays, and net win/loss for the calendar year on request; this is supportive of your personal records for tax purposes, but is generally not considered sufficient in itself.

Each casino I've ever had experience with has had a full and detailed record of when and what I've played (in fact, their full printout, if it were available, would probably be pretty persuasive documentation of play, but that's not what they give you). I don't know how often they purge those records, but I'm guessing they keep a given calendar year's records until it is unlikely anyone will be asking for their win/loss -- at least October of the following year -- and they may very well keep the records much longer than that, for internal or other purposes that I don't know anything about.

So, you don't have to start building your playing history (at least not for the casino's benefit); if you've used your player's card, the history is already there, and any slot host can review it with you and discuss what you qualify for in the way of comps, etc.

--BG

···

============

#2

So, if I just make a separate entry for each ticket/coin in/out, then I¹ll
be good to go?

Do I need to keep track of machine serial or ID numbers?

Finally, what if I stay at one machine, but switch games or denominations.
Should I do a separate ticket in/out for that?

Who would I contact at the casino for that report of play up until now??

Thanks!!

SoundMessage

···

From: <b.glazer@att.net>
Reply-To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:18:55 +0000
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Accounting for Wins/Losses for Tax Purposes

12. Accounting for Wins/Losses for Tax Purposes
Date: Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 pm ((PDT))

How do you all account for wins and losses for tax purposes? I've just created
a spreadsheet
in Excel that has the following columns:

Date - Date of Play
Location - Which Casino
Coin-In - Total Cash I Put Into the Machine(s) That Day
Take-Away - Total Cash I Get from the Ticket Redemption Machine, If Any
Gain/Loss - Coin-In Minus Take-Away
Total Gain/Loss - Sum of Gain/Loss Entries

Is there anything else I need to keep track of?

Also, I just got my first W2G from Red Rock the other day (4x Deuces on $.50
LDW). I've
been playing here and there since I moved out to Las Vegas at the start of

Feb,

and I've
always used my Boarding Pass Card out there. Would they have a record of my
play since
then so I can start building my playing history? I know I should've started
sooner, but I didn't
expect to play as much as I do now. :wink:

Thanks!!

This has been discussed here recently; most seem to think that a little more
info than you are keeping is necessary -- each ticket out (unless they are
at a single sit-down) probably represents the end of one session, and the
IRS seems to like "session" (not well defined) records.

So - each time you play a given machine, you want your net win/loss for that
time, which could make many many sessions per day, while your records appear
to be a daily summary only.

The casino will usually be able to provide a record of coin-in, coin-out,
handpays, and net win/loss for the calendar year on request; this is
supportive of your personal records for tax purposes, but is generally not
considered sufficient in itself.

Each casino I've ever had experience with has had a full and detailed record
of when and what I've played (in fact, their full printout, if it were
available, would probably be pretty persuasive documentation of play, but
that's not what they give you). I don't know how often they purge those
records, but I'm guessing they keep a given calendar year's records until it
is unlikely anyone will be asking for their win/loss -- at least October of
the following year -- and they may very well keep the records much longer
than that, for internal or other purposes that I don't know anything about.

So, you don't have to start building your playing history (at least not for
the casino's benefit); if you've used your player's card, the history is
already there, and any slot host can review it with you and discuss what you
qualify for in the way of comps, etc.

--BG

============

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

There isn't a single official, approved solution for record keeping.
The ongoing poll on the definition of a session offers guidelines
on what others are doing:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/surveys?id=11927322

I believe that many record machine #'s and many don't feel that
they're necessary. Can't hurt.

You're not likely to get info from a casino that will be very useful
in constructing a contemporary diary.

vpFae

···

On 16 May 2007 at 23:43, Nathan O. Roemer wrote:

So, if I just make a separate entry for each ticket/coin in/out, then I¹ll
be good to go?

Do I need to keep track of machine serial or ID numbers?

Finally, what if I stay at one machine, but switch games or denominations.
Should I do a separate ticket in/out for that?

Who would I contact at the casino for that report of play up until now??

#4

Nathan O. Roemer wrote:

So, if I just make a separate entry for each ticket/coin in/out, then
I¹ll be good to go?

Do I need to keep track of machine serial or ID numbers?

Finally, what if I stay at one machine, but switch games or
denominations. Should I do a separate ticket in/out for that?

Who would I contact at the casino for that report of play up until
now??

The basic IRS guidance on casino play record keeping is very rudimentary:

Your diary should contain at least the following information.

   1. The date and type of your specific wager or wagering activity.
   2. The name and address or location of the gambling establishment.
   3. The names of other persons present with you at the gambling
establishment.
   4. The amount(s) you won or lost.

That's what I adhere to -- I think that "specific wager/wagering
activity" means that you must itemize play to identify win/loss for
each unique combination of game/denomination. (e.g. 9/6 Jacks, $.25)

Consequently my detailed diary records activity any time I change game
or denom (or machine type, e.g. multiline), and any time I change
machine (as a practical matter).

I also record play time and an indicator of coin-in (pts or est). I
once tracked machine numbers, but have since dispensed with that.

As vpFAE suggests, casino records are of little value. They're
notoriously inaccurate, insufficiently detailed, and don't meet the
IRS requirement for a "contemporaneous" record. Still, were you
called in for a review of your gaming reporting, obtaining a report
from the casino simply as some type of documentation would be of some
benefit.

Note: vpFAE also alludes to the topic of "session" accounting -- i.e.
how you group your play periods in determining what you report for
wins/losses. There's no definitive guidance. This is what the poll
he referred you to addresses.

- Harry

#5

I wrote:

The basic IRS guidance on casino play record keeping is very

rudimentary:

>> Your diary should contain at least the following information.

   1. The date and type of your specific wager or wagering activity.
   2. The name and address or location of the gambling establishment.
   3. The names of other persons present with you at the gambling
establishment.
   4. The amount(s) you won or lost.

I omitted a supplementary guide:

Slot machines. A record of the machine number and all winnings

by date and time the machine was played.

You can reference this abbreviated guidance in IRS Publication 529 -
Miscellaneous Deductions.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p529/ar02.html#d0e2075

The gambling details are in the list of deductions "not subject to the
2% limit", a little over 1/2 way down the page.

- Harry