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A very good article about the Oregon Video Poker situation

​I read the first two posts in this thread + the article hyperlinked in the
first post. What follows is an email that I sent by BCC copies to several
VP acquaintances​ and the friends who accompanied me on last fall's drive
along the Oregon coast. Please comment if you have knowledge, whether
based on personal experience or hearsay. Thanks.

The GMan

I'm not surprised to learn that a state lottery misleads players.

(1) My first follow up question would be whether the "wrong" advice
actually leads the player to the least-bad predetermined result. My
previous understanding is/was that state-sanctioned VP in Oregon pays an
overall (bad) return that is predetermined as soon as the machine deals the
initial hand. E.g., in the hand described by the article, the player may
have been predestined to end up with two pair, and that result required
either ignoring his straight draw or drawing one of the bizarre wild cards
that I encountered at a Washington tribal casino. [Discard dealt quads and,
one way or another, I would redraw quads.]

(2) My second follow up question would be whether VP at Oregon *tribal *casinos
is gaffed in the same way as Oregon Lottery machines.

When I and two friends drove the gorgeous Oregon coast last fall, I was
intrigued by the possibility of getting room and board for (math EV) free
at a tribal casino on or near the coast. I still am intrigued, but only if
tribal casino machines are governed by RNGs. The linked article raises a
bright caution flag.

FWIW, conventional wisdom in the VP community says that machines
manufactured by any company licensed in Nevada must deal cards randomly.
Williams Gaming (WMS) is the second-most prominent of those companies. But
I learned recently (when inquiring about a game called "Dream Card" that is
manufactured by the most-prominent Nevada-license VP machine manufacturer)
that writing software that always recommends the best play for any initial
hand in every game that a multi-game machine offers is a difficult task
from which VP machine manufacturers obtained an exemption in early
iterations of Dream Card. That MAY explain the weird experience of the
article's protagonist in Oregon. Or, maybe the Oregon Lottery actually has
been knowingly perpetrated a fraud to increase its profits.

Comments welcomed.

The GMan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All of the Oregon VLT's (Video Lottery terminals) are class 3, meaning an independent RNG to determine the results, but as GMan has noted the return rates are horrible @ 91%.

In Washington State all VLT's are class 2, where a central server pre-determines winners and losers. The Indian Casinos in Washington State can only use class 2 video poker machines due to a pack they have with the State with a return rate around 75%

The Oregon Indian casinos use class 3 machines video poker machines from manufactures who are reputable. The casinos here tend to set the return rate around 98.5% for most JOB variety of games and 98.9% for DW.

References:
http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html#Washington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_lottery_terminal#Class_III_video_lottery

Gman wrote: "FWIW, conventional wisdom in the VP community says that machines
manufactured by any company licensed in Nevada must deal cards randomly."

I'm pretty sure that's not true. The regulation is that machines licensed for use in Nevada must deal cards randomly. Actually, the regulation is that Nevada machines must follow existing floor games if they exist. So, poker machines must follow the poker table game, blackjack machines must follow the blackjack table game, roulette machines must follow the roulette table game, keno machines must follow the keno floor game, craps machines must follow the craps floor game and so on. Somehow though there are some exemptions, like Wheel of Fortune doesn't have to follow a Big 6 wheel on the floor. Anyone who has played or watched a Wheel of Fortune slot wheel spin knows it's not a fair spin.

Big Six - Wizard of Odds http://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/

http://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/

Big Six - Wizard of Odds http://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/ The Wizard of Odds gives the odds, house edge, and proper strategy for the casino game Big Six.

View on wizardofo... http://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/
Preview by Yahoo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not sure what you mean by "conventional wisdom" but current Nevada statutes concerning the manufacturing of machines says ONLY that the machine must be legal in the destination where it is shipped. (There is nothing about a random deal being a requirement. The regulations were changed many years ago when Indian casino gaming became popular and IGT wanted to be in on the business.)

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 20:48:52 -0400
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A very good article about the Oregon Video Poker situation

​I read the first two posts in this thread + the article hyperlinked in the
first post. What follows is an email that I sent by BCC copies to several
VP acquaintances​ and the friends who accompanied me on last fall's drive
along the Oregon coast. Please comment if you have knowledge, whether
based on personal experience or hearsay. Thanks.

The GMan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm not surprised to learn that a state lottery misleads players.

(1) My first follow up question would be whether the "wrong" advice
actually leads the player to the least-bad predetermined result. My
previous understanding is/was that state-sanctioned VP in Oregon pays an
overall (bad) return that is predetermined as soon as the machine deals the
initial hand. E.g., in the hand described by the article, the player may
have been predestined to end up with two pair, and that result required
either ignoring his straight draw or drawing one of the bizarre wild cards
that I encountered at a Washington tribal casino. [Discard dealt quads and,
one way or another, I would redraw quads.]

(2) My second follow up question would be whether VP at Oregon *tribal *casinos
is gaffed in the same way as Oregon Lottery machines.

When I and two friends drove the gorgeous Oregon coast last fall, I was
intrigued by the possibility of getting room and board for (math EV) free
at a tribal casino on or near the coast. I still am intrigued, but only if
tribal casino machines are governed by RNGs. The linked article raises a
bright caution flag.

FWIW, conventional wisdom in the VP community says that machines
manufactured by any company licensed in Nevada must deal cards randomly.
Williams Gaming (WMS) is the second-most prominent of those companies. But
I learned recently (when inquiring about a game called "Dream Card" that is
manufactured by the most-prominent Nevada-license VP machine manufacturer)
that writing software that always recommends the best play for any initial
hand in every game that a multi-game machine offers is a difficult task
from which VP machine manufacturers obtained an exemption in early
iterations of Dream Card. That MAY explain the weird experience of the
article's protagonist in Oregon. Or, maybe the Oregon Lottery actually has
been knowingly perpetrated a fraud to increase its profits.

Comments welcomed.

The GMan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Posted by: Glen Gronseth <gleng4444@gmail.com>
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