vpFREE2 Forums

A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets

#1

Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well, last
time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so filled
with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.

It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"--
smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!

However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long run,
INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying off,
by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning of
smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that the
benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
cardrooms are still jammed.

Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as they
think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that next
yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they sweat
and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter filter-
tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!

It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys, and
any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
casino--would likely be met with resistance.

Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be losing
the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada. I
predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well,

last

time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so

filled

···

with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.

It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"-

-

smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!

However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long

run,

INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying

off,

by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning

of

smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that

the

benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
cardrooms are still jammed.

Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as

they

think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that

next

yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they

sweat

and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter

filter-

tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!

It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys,

and

any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
casino--would likely be met with resistance.

Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be

losing

the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada.

I

predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

Thank you for your arrogant diatribe against 25% of the population!
Quite frankly, despite your ridiculous caricature of smokers acting
like a smack addicts suffering withdrawal, the holier than thou
attitude of your ilk is far more repulsive than any cigarette could
ever be. Oh BTW Sparky, do you remember the smashing success of the
smoke-free Silver City? I just love when people seem to think they
are smarter than a free market.

#3

Roblobue -- After reading rockofjello's post, I, as a smoker, am fully expecting to be deported to an island similar to Molokai sometime within the next year. I just hope they have a few video poker machines there. :slight_smile:

  Joan

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: roblobue
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:13 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
  <rockofjello333@y...> wrote:
  >
  > Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
  > et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
  > descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well,
  last
  > time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
  > cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
  > outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
  > sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so
  filled
  > with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.
  >
  > It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"-
  -
  > smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
  > etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
  > indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
  > stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!
  >
  > However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
  > perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long
  run,
  > INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
  > gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying
  off,
  > by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
  > continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
  > patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
  > being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning
  of
  > smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that
  the
  > benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
  > alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
  > cardrooms are still jammed.
  >
  > Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
  > table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
  > who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as
  they
  > think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that
  next
  > yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
  > won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they
  sweat
  > and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter
  filter-
  > tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!
  >
  > It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
  > rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
  > the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
  > clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
  > reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
  > Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
  > restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
  > Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys,
  and
  > any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
  > casino--would likely be met with resistance.
  >
  > Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
  > antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
  > antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be
  losing
  > the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada.
  I
  > predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
  > entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
  > tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

  Thank you for your arrogant diatribe against 25% of the population!
  Quite frankly, despite your ridiculous caricature of smokers acting
  like a smack addicts suffering withdrawal, the holier than thou
  attitude of your ilk is far more repulsive than any cigarette could
  ever be. Oh BTW Sparky, do you remember the smashing success of the
  smoke-free Silver City? I just love when people seem to think they
  are smarter than a free market.

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yahoo! Groups Links

    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/
      
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

hey -its troll time kids - what does the group feel about smoking in casino's?

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:14 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets

Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well, last
time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so filled
with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.

It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"--
smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!

However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long run,
INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying off,
by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning of
smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that the
benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
cardrooms are still jammed.

Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as they
think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that next
yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they sweat
and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter filter-
tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!

It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys, and
any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
casino--would likely be met with resistance.

Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be losing
the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada. I
predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#5

hey -its troll time kids - what does the group feel about smoking

in

casino's?

Why would people who don't like smoke(rs) go in smokey places?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:

#6

Thank you for your arrogant diatribe against 25% of the

population!

Quite frankly, despite your ridiculous caricature of smokers

acting

like a smack addicts suffering withdrawal, the holier than thou
attitude of your ilk is far more repulsive than any cigarette

could

ever be. Oh BTW Sparky, do you remember the smashing success of

the

smoke-free Silver City? I just love when people seem to think they
are smarter than a free market.

You are simply restating my point. Silver City (and the Ponderosa in
Reno at about the same time) failed in their non-smoking experiment
because the time for it wasn't right. The moves were desperate
attempt to revive two casinos that suffered badly from their
suboptimal locations.
Now, by contrast, because of laws that already exist in California
(Vegas's number-one market) and other places, coupled with the
continued success of the California card casinos despite the smoking
ban, I think the Nevada casinos will be more willing to consider the
needs and desires of the non-smoking public (who, as you state, are
in the large majority of the population), rather than pandering tio
the smokers. This will indeed be a function of the free market, and
the 75% of casino patrons (using your figure) who DON'T like the
horrid stench or the ill health effects of cigarette smoke vote with
their feet. It'll be interesting to see if and when any major casino
takes the step of banning smoking, and what happens to their bottom
line.
By the way, even in the context of your condemnation of myself and
my "ilk" (I've never HAD an "ilk" before!), I would ask you to
consider the simple proposition that while you have the "right" to
smoke, non-smokers conversely have the "right" to NOT smoke. Common
law has held for heundreds of years that when the exercise of
one "right" interferes directly with another person's "right", that
first "right" needs to be curtailed. If you step back from your own
perspective as a smoker, and translate this concept to some other
activity, such as your neighbor's "right to mow his lawn at 7:00 AM
Saturday morning, you might see what I'm talking about.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "roblobue" <roblobue@y...> wrote:

#7

Roblobue -- After reading rockofjello's post, I, as a smoker, am

fully expecting to be deported to an island similar to Molokai
sometime within the next year. I just hope they have a few video
poker machines there. :slight_smile:

Interesting question: if it came to that, would you quit your habit,
or allow yourself to be deported?
Keep in mind that in this scenario, smokers wouldn't get a nice
place like Molokai, but probably someplace like Baffin Island.
Reminds me of an old Bloom County comic strip where Steve Dallas'
doctor tells him he has to quit smoking, "or croak" in six months.
Steve thinks, and then muses aloud, "Ya know, Doc, a guy can pack a
lot of living into six months."

But seriously, given that the main reason for the smoking
bans/backlash is that smoking in public inflicts real, tangible,
substantial harm on others, how did the smokers assume the mantle of
persecuted victims here? Just wondering (gotta go clean my assault
rifle collection now).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Joan Lee" <leejoane@c...> wrote:

#8

> hey -its troll time kids - what does the group feel about

smoking

in
> casino's?
>
Why would people who don't like smoke(rs) go in smokey places?

1. Because the activity taking place in such places is enjoyable
enough that the nonsmokers are willing to endure the smoke, even
though that smoke diminishes their enjoyment.

2. Becuase a person might not want to be driven from a public place
just because some people in it are engaged in an obnoxious and
repulsive activity (I go downtown to see a play or the symphony, and
walk past the drunks, panhandlers, and hookers on the way to and
experience, but I won't let them keep me away).

3. For the same reason that people who don't like noise go into
noisy places, and people who don't like crowds go into crowded
places, etc. etc.--because they have no CHOICE.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "testpro" <testpro@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:

from my car; it annoys me, and diminishes my enjoyment of the

#9

> >
> Why would people who don't like smoke(rs) go in smokey places?

1. Because the activity taking place in such places is enjoyable
enough that the nonsmokers are willing to endure the smoke, even
though that smoke diminishes their enjoyment.

There is help out there for these people.

2. Becuase a person might not want to be driven from a public place
just because some people in it are engaged in an obnoxious and
repulsive activity (I go downtown to see a play or the symphony,

and

walk past the drunks, panhandlers, and hookers on the way to and
from my car; it annoys me, and diminishes my enjoyment of the
experience, but I won't let them keep me away).

Casinos are open to the public, but are privately owned and operated
places. The decision is each individual's about whether to enter or
not.

3. For the same reason that people who don't like noise go into
noisy places, and people who don't like crowds go into crowded
places, etc. etc.--because they have no CHOICE.

There is help out there for these people.

#10

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

But seriously, given that the main reason for the smoking
bans/backlash is that smoking in public inflicts real, tangible,
substantial harm on others, how did the smokers assume the mantle

of

persecuted victims here? Just wondering (gotta go clean my assault
rifle collection now).

Quite right. It is, afterall, poison. I spend a lot of time trying
find playable machines on the ends of rows where the air circulators
are moving in the right direction as a hedge against getting choked.
Too often I've had to just cash out and go elsewhere when the wind
shifts. It's difficult enough to keep one's focus and play well. Who
needs the aggravation? It just puts me off my play. In defense of
smokers, some of them are considerate and actually ask if their
smoking would bother me when they sit down. On those occasions some of
my faith in the human species is renewed. I tend to play most often
early in the morning when things are quiet and the air is at its best.
Being a Gemini, one of the first things I want to know in a casino is,
"does it have good air?"

#11

Amen!

···

From: "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:14:41 -0000

Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well, last
time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so filled
with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.

It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"--
smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!

However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long run,
INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying off,
by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning of
smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that the
benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
cardrooms are still jammed.

Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as they
think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that next
yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they sweat
and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter filter-
tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!

It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys, and
any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
casino--would likely be met with resistance.

Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be losing
the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada. I
predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

#12

The Silver City's non smoking experiment did not fail because of lack of demand for a smoke free envronment. They had no real restaurant, no slot club, and the VP was worse than the surrounding casinos. Even when they restored smoking things didn't improve.

···

From: "roblobue" <roblobue@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:13:07 -0000

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:
>
> Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
> et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
> descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well,
last
> time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
> cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
> outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
> sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so
filled
> with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.
>
> It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"-
-
> smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
> etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
> indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
> stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!
>
> However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
> perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long
run,
> INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
> gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying
off,
> by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
> continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
> patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
> being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning
of
> smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that
the
> benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
> alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
> cardrooms are still jammed.
>
> Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
> table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
> who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as
they
> think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that
next
> yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
> won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they
sweat
> and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter
filter-
> tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!
>
> It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
> rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
> the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
> clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
> reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
> Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
> restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
> Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys,
and
> any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
> casino--would likely be met with resistance.
>
> Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
> antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
> antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be
losing
> the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada.
I
> predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
> entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
> tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.

Thank you for your arrogant diatribe against 25% of the population!
Quite frankly, despite your ridiculous caricature of smokers acting
like a smack addicts suffering withdrawal, the holier than thou
attitude of your ilk is far more repulsive than any cigarette could
ever be. Oh BTW Sparky, do you remember the smashing success of the
smoke-free Silver City? I just love when people seem to think they
are smarter than a free market.

#13

Since you asked. There is no reason to allow smoking in casinos. It is a public place and endangering others due one's habit just isn't right. Even in NV 69% of the population are non smokers (compare to 82% in CA), thus it seems odd that it is still being allowed. It seems that a casino is afraid to go smoke free as they are afraid of losing their business. In reality, if all the casinos in Vegas went smoke free tomorrow, there would be a temparary drop off but after a while it would become the norm as have the show rooms and poker rooms that are mainly now non smokign and business in these two venues is as good as ever. The casinos have failed to realize that if people live longer and healthier that they can visit the casinos more and spend more money there.

···

From: "tomflush" <tomflush@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:14:52 -0500

hey -its troll time kids - what does the group feel about smoking in
casino's?

----- Original Message -----
From: "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:14 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] A speculation on nonsmoking areas/casinos/planets

>
> Anyone remember how the California card barns (Commerce, Popsicle,
> et al) screamed in agony at the impending doom that was sure to
> descend on them when the indoor smoking ban took effect? Well, last
> time I was there (November), the parking lot had about a jillion
> cars in it. True, there were people--dozens of them--standing
> outside in the rain puffing away. Inside, there was the comical
> sight of a "smoking area"--a glassed-off cubicle that was so filled
> with grayish smoke that you could hardly see the occupants.
>
> It has been traditional that in Vegas you could "do what you want"--
> smoke, drink, gamble, stay up all night, go to a strip club, etc.
> etc. And since this is a place that has thrived on catering to and
> indulging people's weaknesses and stupidities, the weakness and
> stupidity of smoking was indeed catered to: bring out the ashtrays!
>
> However, Vegas casinos have taken the first tentative step toward
> perceiving the reality--that banning smoking will, in the long run,
> INCREASE customer visitation. The people who puff away while
> gambling, while still disproportionately represented, are dying off,
> by natural attrition as well as the effect of their habit. As this
> continues, we see a subtle but gradual push by those who wish to
> patronize a casino without winding up smelling like an ashtray and
> being nauseated. The most signal development has been the banning of
> smoking in many major Vegas cardrooms. Management realizes that the
> benefits of a nonsmoking environment outweigh the possible
> alienation of smokers. And guess what? Nothing happened! The
> cardrooms are still jammed.
>
> Personally, I LOOOOVE being up against a smoker at a nonsmoking
> table. You can tell (by the smell if you're one of two seats away)
> who they are. You see them unconsciously licking their lips as they
> think of finishing this hand so they can dash outside for that next
> yummy cigarette. They tremble slightly; they seem distracted. They
> won't even remember what cards they have in their hand as they sweat
> and shake under the lash of their master, the 100 millimeter filter-
> tip. Poker is the LAST thing on what remains of their minds!
>
> It's interesting to see how long the Palms holds out. Their poker
> rooms are stuck in a side alcove with no air ducting leading into
> the areas, leaving them to rely on the general air circulation to
> clear out the stink. It doesn't work--it's THICK in there! One
> reason, though, why they may be slow to ban smoking, is that the
> Palms is adjacent to "Chinatown", the gathering of Oriental shops,
> restaurants, and businesses that cluster west of the freeway along
> Spring Mountain Road. Orientals generally smoke like chimmneys, and
> any suggestion that they stop smoking in the poker room--or in the
> casino--would likely be met with resistance.
>
> Overall, it's cheering to see that, in the last bastion of
> antisocial behavior and shameless self-indulgence, the extremely
> antisocial and self-indulgent act of smoking in public may be losing
> the protection that it has enjoyed, and never deserved, in Nevada. I
> predict that by 2010, smoking indoors will be forbidden in the
> entire US--even Nevada, being relegated to the same category as
> tobacco spitting, peeing on the sidewalk, and indecent exposure.
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>