vpFREE2 Forums

A quick slot question

I was observing players on both sides of me playing video keno.
They had their numbers selected and as soon as some of their numbers
were hit they started knocking on their sreeens as if that would
cause the remaining numbers to also be hit.
  I am not questioning the stupidity of pounding on the screen and I
must admit it was very annoying. However, I was wondering if the
selection of the specific numbers or pattern have any meaning. Is
the machine program to pay out a certain return, and when a pay out
of a certain size is going to happen, it will find the numbers
necessary for that pay out and hit enough numbers? Will do this
regardess which numbers the player selected or where they were place
on the screen? Or, is there any significance in the selection of the
numbers or pattern to play?
  I thought I would ask if anyone has any insights. I wanted to be
sure since it might be very inflating to tell them that it does not
even matter what numbers or pattern they select, much less think they
can phyically help those numbers get hit. Obviously many slot
machines are simply played by hitting the button without cany
choice. However some machines involve some choice, such as keno, and
I was wondering if there is any significance, even though it is luck,
to their choices.

Bob

In places like Las Vegas where the Video Poker machines are random,
so are the video keno machines to the best of my knowledge.

Thus, there is no pre-programmed 'time to payoff'. It draws 20
random numbers out of the 80 and if the Player wins, the Player
wins. The payouts are so low on most of these machines (albeit
higher frequently than real keno) that the casinos don't have to
worry much about losing.

Elliot

  I was observing players on both sides of me playing video keno.
They had their numbers selected and as soon as some of their

numbers

were hit they started knocking on their sreeens as if that would
cause the remaining numbers to also be hit.
  I am not questioning the stupidity of pounding on the screen and

I

must admit it was very annoying. However, I was wondering if the
selection of the specific numbers or pattern have any meaning. Is
the machine program to pay out a certain return, and when a pay

out

of a certain size is going to happen, it will find the numbers
necessary for that pay out and hit enough numbers? Will do this
regardess which numbers the player selected or where they were

place

on the screen? Or, is there any significance in the selection of

the

numbers or pattern to play?
  I thought I would ask if anyone has any insights. I wanted to

be

sure since it might be very inflating to tell them that it does

not

even matter what numbers or pattern they select, much less think

they

can phyically help those numbers get hit. Obviously many slot
machines are simply played by hitting the button without cany
choice. However some machines involve some choice, such as keno,

and

I was wondering if there is any significance, even though it is

luck,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

to their choices.

Bob

By all means, question the stupidity of pounding on the screen. I went
to the South Coast for the first time last night and players next to
me were doing the exact same thing. As well as generally making a mess
of the nice new Game King machines. And let me be the first to say
that the trash the place attitude ran across a broad spectrum of
races, creeds, colors, and ages.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

  I was observing players on both sides of me playing video keno.
They had their numbers selected and as soon as some of their numbers
were hit they started knocking on their sreeens as if that would
cause the remaining numbers to also be hit.
  I am not questioning the stupidity of pounding on the screen and I
must admit it was very annoying.

The following was the only answer to my quetion. If the answer is true, the player has some choice in video keno and could guess right. I had problem with this since I thought slot machines were programmed to payout a certain % as determined by the slot manager or casino. I thought there was a legal minimum in Nevada for a slot machine the involves no action by the player other than "to pull the lever"? A payout minimum is why I thought it did not matter which numbers the player picked in video keno in spite of some choice.

  In thory, a video keno machine might never pay out if the random numbers did not match those selected by the player. Is that how video keno differs from other slot machines?

Elliot wrote:

In places like Las Vegas where the Video Poker machines are random, so are the video keno machines to the best of my knowledge.

Thus, there is no pre-programmed 'time to payoff'. It draws 20 random numbers out of the 80 and if the Player wins, the Player wins. The payouts are so low on most of these machines (albeit higher frequently than real keno) that the casinos don't have to worry much about losing.

Elliot

"I was observing players on both sides of me playing video keno. They had their numbers selected and as soon as some of their numbers
were hit they started knocking on their sreeens as if that would cause the remaining numbers to also be hit.
  I am not questioning the stupidity of pounding on the screen and I must admit it was very annoying. However, I was wondering the selection of the specific numbers or pattern have any meaning. Is the machine program to pay out a certain return, and when a pay out of a certain size is going to happen, it will find the numbers necessary for that pay out and hit enough numbers? Will do this regardess which numbers the player selected or where they were
place on the screen? Or, is there any significance in the selection of the numbers or pattern to play?
I thought I would ask if anyone has any insights. I wanted to be sure since it might be very inflating to tell them that it does
not even matter what numbers or pattern they select, much less think they can phyically help those numbers get hit. Obviously many slot
machines are simply played by hitting the button without any choice. However some machines involve some choice, such as keno, and I was wondering if there is any significance, even though it is luck, to their choices."

Bob

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Frome" <compuflyers@p...> wrote:

In places like Las Vegas where the Video Poker machines are random,
so are the video keno machines to the best of my knowledge.

Thus, there is no pre-programmed 'time to payoff'. It draws 20
random numbers out of the 80 and if the Player wins, the Player
wins. The payouts are so low on most of these machines (albeit
higher frequently than real keno) that the casinos don't have to
worry much about losing.

Elliot

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" futrend@y... wrote:
>
> I was observing players on both sides of me playing video keno.
> They had their numbers selected and as soon as some of their
numbers
> were hit they started knocking on their sreeens as if that would
> cause the remaining numbers to also be hit.
> I am not questioning the stupidity of pounding on the screen and
I
> must admit it was very annoying. However, I was wondering if the
> selection of the specific numbers or pattern have any meaning. Is
> the machine program to pay out a certain return, and when a pay
out
> of a certain size is going to happen, it will find the numbers
> necessary for that pay out and hit enough numbers? Will do this
> regardess which numbers the player selected or where they were
place
> on the screen? Or, is there any significance in the selection of
the
> numbers or pattern to play?
> I thought I would ask if anyone has any insights. I wanted to
be
> sure since it might be very inflating to tell them that it does
not
> even matter what numbers or pattern they select, much less think
they
> can phyically help those numbers get hit. Obviously many slot
> machines are simply played by hitting the button without cany
> choice. However some machines involve some choice, such as keno,
and
> I was wondering if there is any significance, even though it is
luck,
> to their choices.
>
> Bob
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't confuse payout percentages with randomness.
In Video Poker most of us agree that on the machines found in Nevada, the hands are all dealt randomly and the overall payback is determined by the paytable.
Video Keno works the same way.
Slots are similar, but instead of varying the paytable to arrive at the casino profit, what is varied are the number of winning combinations available. When you are going
to hit one of those combinations is still done randomly.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: futrend
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:15 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: A quick slot question

    The following was the only answer to my quetion. If the answer is true, the player has some choice in video keno and could guess right. I had problem with this since I thought slot machines were programmed to payout a certain % as determined by the slot manager or casino. I thought there was a legal minimum in Nevada for a slot machine the involves no action by the player other than "to pull the lever"? A payout minimum is why I thought it did not matter which numbers the player picked in video keno in spite of some choice.

    In thory, a video keno machine might never pay out if the random numbers did not match those selected by the player. Is that how video keno differs from other slot machines?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<I thought slot machines were programmed to payout a certain % as
determined by the slot manager or casino.>>

Slot machines in Nevada must have a certain minimum EXPECTATION. That's not
the same as saying they must pay out a certain percentage over any given
period of time.

<< In thory, a video keno machine might never pay out if the random numbers
did not match those selected by the player. Is that how video keno differs
from other slot machines? >>

It differs only in giving the illusion of choice. In reality, so long as the
game is random (and there have been stories of people beating games where
the numbers were actually predictable) all choices of numbers yield an equal
EV.

Cogno

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Cogno Scienti" <cognoscienti@g...>
wrote:

<<I thought slot machines were programmed to payout a certain % as
determined by the slot manager or casino.>>

Slot machines in Nevada must have a certain minimum EXPECTATION.

That's not

the same as saying they must pay out a certain percentage over any

given

period of time.

It may be helpful to mention that, with Keno, it's possible to
calculate the long run EXPECTATION based on the paytable. With slots
this cannot be done ... only the casino and/or manufacturer know the
expected return of a slot. That's why it may make sense,
mathematically, to play Keno. Even then it may not make sense, because
Keno has a very high variance. Most of the return depends on getting
the top jackpot, which is extremely unlikely.

  In thory, a video keno machine might never pay out if the random

numbers did not match those selected by the player. Is that how
video keno differs from other slot machines?

You've received some good replies from other people, but I'll add my
comments specifically directed to your question above. The simple
answer is NO, that's not how video keno differs from slot machines.
In theory, a slot machine might also NEVER pay out if the random
numbers chosen at the moment the spin button is hit are always by
chance the numbers electronically mapped to losing combinations.
Whenever I have to use free play on a regular slot machine, I seem to
pick a machine like this :slight_smile:

I'll add that the idea that slots have some secondary function that
causes them to "catch up" or "slow down" in order to pay out their
pre-programmed payback is a very common misconception. Random means
random. The only thing we can really say is that over an
increasingly larger and larger number of plays, the actual payback
*percentage* will tend to converge on the theoretical payback
*percentage* due simply to the laws of probability.

EE

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote: