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A Novice Question From A Paranoid Mind

#1

8a. Re: A Novice Question From A Paranoid Mind
Date: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:30 am ((PST))

...

However, the real answer, is the same for all similar queries
regarding casinos rigging their machines: It is unlikely for a major
established casino to rig their machines because they are profitable
to begin with. The cost of losing a gaming license combined with
devastating publicity when the scandal is made public is far greater
than the additional revenue they might realize by operating their
machine outside of gaming regulations.

It is far simpler (and legal!) to simply adjust paytables (esp. on
slots where no one knows what they are anyway) to lower return
percentages.

While I have always supported the concept that it would be foolish for a casino to gaffe a machine and risk its license, I have also always supported the concept that it would be foolish for an investment manager to administer a Ponzi scheme ala Madoff, where it is INEVITABLE that eventually it will catch up with him, and thus he risks his license, and risks criminal prosecution, jail time, etc.

I am recently reminded that sometimes people do foolish things in the name of greed, without appropriate thought to the long-term consequences. Other motives than greed are sometimes present as well.

I keep playing - but I don't think we have ANY reason to think that EVERY game that is offered in a licensed casino is "fair".

The chances of it happening may be even smaller than the chances of someone having a statistically poor year or more "by chance alone" - but I don't think the chance is zero, and slot frauds have previously been documented and prosecuted.

--BG

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#2

things in the name of greed, without appropriate thought to
the long-term consequences. Other motives than greed are
sometimes present as well.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, b.glazer@... wrote:

I am recently reminded that sometimes people do foolish

================================================
The only other motive that I can envision, for a casino to
rig machine payoffs in their favor, would be to possibly
avert a bankruptcy, in these precarious economic times.
IMO, even that circumstance does not make much sense. So,
I guess that I'll continue to give NEVADA casinos, the
benefit of any doubt that might occur during a prolonged
losing streak.

I keep playing - but I don't think we have ANY reason to

think that EVERY game that is offered in a licensed casino
is "fair".

This may an apples to oranges statement. I believe that
theOP's, and certainly my post, were discussing VIDEO POKER,
notEVERY game.

Concerning reel slots, about which I know nothing, as
othershave contended, why take a chance on "rigging" a
machine, when it is both simple and legal to order slots
from the manufacturer, which contain lower payback
percentages. Certainly, no can tell the payback of a reel
slot by viewing the paytable.

This is totally different than a VP machine, on which any
player with a modicum of knowledge about the game, can
readily discern the EV just by reading the payoffs printed
on the glass.

Rigging a VP machine in such a way that jackpot hands
would be eliminated or minimized, rather than just
downgrading a payoff, would require the culpable knowledge
of the casino. I just don't believe that this ever happens
in any legal casino entity in Nevada. If I am naive, so be
it.

If I should ever come to believe otherwise, I would
IMMEDIATELY stop playing any machines, VP or reels. If I
just couldn't stay away from casino action, I would switch
to a table game, probably BJ, which was my game of choice
prior to the advent of VP.

The chances of it happening may be even smaller than the

chances of someone having a statistically poor year or more
"by chance alone" - but I don't think the chance is zero,
and slot frauds have previously been documented and
prosecuted.
--BG

I think that the chances of casino machine rigging happening
are very substantially lower than that of some players having
a "statistically poor year". I have a strong belief that
anyone who has played VP for several years has experienced
the awful dry spells that are completely counter to what the
normal EV of a good VP game might be.

I have encountered long RF droughts a few times during the 25+
years during which I have indulged my VP passion. While those
periods of time were frustrating and unpleasant, it never
occurred to me that I might not have a fair opportunity to
change the situation on the very next hand. If anything, I
thought that I was having a PERSONAL streak of bad luck, that
would surely have to end soon.

The subject line of this post references a "paranoid mind". I
don't believe that a person who regularly focuses on whether a
casino is purposefully cheating them, is necessarily paranoid
(though that personality disorder might certainly fuel such
thoughts). But I do feel that if one frequently harbors such
suspicions, that it might be prudent for ones own well being,
to take a break from casino activities. Just my opinion, of
course.

~Babe~

#3

In my reply to the OP, I forgot one of the most important points. In
addition to everything already mentioned, one of the reasons that it
is unlikely for a casino/operator to be rigging video poker machines
is because it takes a tremendous amount of skill and know-how to do so.

If a casino wanted to rig the blackjack games by taking out some of
the Queens or something, it would be very, very simple to do. Or use
loaded craps dice, etc. I'm not saying this is happening either, but
one can see how it would be fairly simple to do so.

However, slot machines don't have these kinds of "inputs." Operators
buy slot machines and games to run on them from a manufacturer, and
have no ability to modify the software at all. Modifications of any
kind to the device which contains the software will result in a
checksum failure, and the game won't boot. It would take a tremendous
amount of effort, and likely a large team of people, to have even the
most remote chance of successfully producing a hacked version of a
major gaming company's product (IGT, Bally, WMS, Aristocrat, etc.), if
it could even be done at all. All of this effort of course, costs
money, which would reduce or eliminate the profitability of such
rigging/cheating.

There needs to be a sticky post on the forum where answers to these
kinds of questions can be saved for convenient access.

#4

If memory serves me, the modified American Coin machines were modified
IGT machines, done by one programmer, Larry Volk. I'm sure the
checksum feature is one of the easiest to override. The "mistake"
(maybe he wanted to get caught?) Volk made was that he made it
impossible to hit a full coin royal, and eventually people noticed
that, given these were progressive machines. It would be much harder
to catch a machine modified with double the average royal cycle. Ron
Harris was also expert at machine modification. There is no shortage
of unemployed computer experts.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "maxbet5" <maxbet5@...> wrote:

However, slot machines don't have these kinds of "inputs." Operators
buy slot machines and games to run on them from a manufacturer, and
have no ability to modify the software at all. Modifications of any
kind to the device which contains the software will result in a
checksum failure, and the game won't boot. It would take a tremendous
amount of effort, and likely a large team of people, to have even the
most remote chance of successfully producing a hacked version of a
major gaming company's product (IGT, Bally, WMS, Aristocrat, etc.), if
it could even be done at all. All of this effort of course, costs
money, which would reduce or eliminate the profitability of such
rigging/cheating.