vpFREE2 Forums

4a. Re: video poker teams

4a. Re: video poker teams
Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:31 am ((PDT))

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TODD FICHTER wrote:
>
> Just curious about something I heard at my last visit to the casino.
Is there really groups of people that pool there money together and
split the winnings after a day at the casinos?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I routinely play VP with a friend. When we're playing at different times (I like to play live poker as well, and I like to go to bed earlier than him, but on the other hand, he often arrives at the casino later than me and I often stay later than him), we play independently. When we play at the same time, we pool our money and our winnings.

If it's a machine that's a little high for our bankroll, we may take turns at a single machine (we use "three and out" - three deals without a win or break-even hand and the other guy gets to play). I don't enjoy that very much, but that's my friend's preference, and I tolerate it - it involves us swapping out players' cards, and basically slows us down to half the pace at which I can play "solo". If it's a machine that's easily within our bankroll, we'll play two machines, preferably side-by-side, with each of us putting in an equal amount in "the kitty", putting a little of "the kitty" into each machine, and first guy busted gets to take money out of the kitty to continue playing, until it's gone or we reach our goal. Our goal may be pre-determined, our we may decide by mutual agreement to change it at any time - often, if we've scored a win (or recovered a big loss) we'll set a stop-loss, and continue playing as long as we go up, but not go below a certain number of credits.

On occasion, we've both entered a poker tournament with an agreement to share our winnings, if any, either completely or in an agreed-upon portion (e.g., we give the other guy 20% of anything we win), and we've also "staked" each other in part for tournaments where only one of us is playing.

We are long-time good friends, and I fully trust him. We carry a Form 5754 with us so the casino can issue us each our share of any hand-pays. I would not trust someone I don't know really well with an on-the-spot agrreement to share a jackpot, personally.

This is not at all the same as other video poker teams, which lock up as many machines as they can and turn them over to other team members in shifts to get as much play as possible in on positive EV machines. It is also not at all the same as blackjack teams, where several "small" players will play minimum bets and count cards, and a "big player" (BP) who establishes an image as a high roller will be signaled if the deck becomes very favorable to the player, at which time he rolls up to that table and places maximum bets. The current movie "21" supposedly relates the story of the MIT team that did this; they are not the only ones.

I've never played team blackjack, but I have played at the same table with a friend who also counts cards, and if one of us loses count, we might ask the other guy "how much do I owe you", to which he'll reply "$800" if the count is plus 8. We assume that we have a rough idea of whether the count is plus or minus even if we've lost the exact count, and of course "we're about even" means just that. Technically, in some venues, "signalling" other players is illegal (not just against the casino rules, but a criminal act) - if it can be proven in court, of course (nothing's illegal if you don't get caught, is it?).

--BG

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<<We carry a Form 5754 with us so the casino can issue us each our share of any hand-pays. >>

Many casinos will not issue these, as a policy or because some employee just doesn't want to bother with it. We talk about this in our tax book.

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________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
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fwiw, the one time i've been backed off from a casino, it was after
requesting such a tax form split. the casino not only refused to do so
(claiming, probably falsely, that it was against nevada gaming
regulations), but also started watching us more closely, and
eventually decided we were some kind of professional video poker team
and they didn't want to keep giving us comps and promotions.

since then i've tried to be a lot more subtle when trading action with
friends. no passing money around in the casino, at least not in public
view. no requesting 5754's.

i mean, if it's a necessity given your tax situation, that's one
thing, but be aware that a) they won't always issue the 5754 if you
ask, and b) there's a cost to asking if you're playing something good
and don't want the attention.

cheers,

five

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On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:07 AM, <b.glazer@att.net> wrote:

We carry a Form 5754 with us so the casino can issue us each our share of any hand-pays.