We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
Hi everyone! I am a new member here but have been a member of the Atlantic City Video Poker Yahoo group for years. Actually I was also, the vpfree2 monitor for Showboat Casino in AC which has just recently closed.
I sure hope this is not an “industry wide” trend but the “comps/offers” gradually started reducing and disappearing in AC about 2 years ago, for “everyone”!!! In addition CZR’s changed their $10 coin in for 1 Tier point to now $50 coin for 1 point, on most positive expectation games (in AC). Actually I have seen the AC VP Yahoo group decline from several thousand (think over 4,000 when I joined years ago) to just 859 now.
If its industry wide and other parts of the country are taking their cue from AC, maybe get use to “your” offers and comps gradually getting reduced and/or eliminated.
On 8 September 2014 14:31, Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 2:31 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
Thought casinos automatically give themselves “raises” by constantly increasing the “tier” level requirements.
On 8 September 2014 15:49, Albert Pearson eh…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
Brilliant analysis. Appreciate your posts.
James Thompson
Former HRH casino monitor
To: vpF…@…com
From: vpF…@…com
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:49:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 2:31 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
Another possibility, of course, is that the casino’s valuation of your play has changed. This might not be, and probably is not, directed specifically at you.
If a casino reevaluates their “theo” the same amount of play is proportionately less valuable, hence worth fewer or lesser comps. In a glaring example, a few years ago, Mohegan Sun reduced its theo by 70%, so a $1000 daily player became a $300 player. Obviously comps and bennies plummeted as a result, tier levels changed. Unfortunately
what followed was still worse, as all of the best VP machines were either eliminated or excluded from earning ANY club points whatsoever.
I’m not familiar with the 4 Queens, and wouldn’t presume to speculate any further. But it would be interesting to know if other players have suffered the same fate.
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
From: “Albert Pearson eh…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: “vpF…@…com” <vpF…@…com>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 2:31 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
I have had a good experience with the 4 Queens and as a result I try to give them the largest portion of my gambling. If I hit early, I make a point of playing my average time and coin-in.
To: vpF…@…com
From: vpF…@…com
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:49:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
Another possibility, of course, is that the casino’s valuation of your play has changed. This might not be, and probably is not, directed specifically at you.
If a casino reevaluates their “theo” the same amount of play is proportionately less valuable, hence worth fewer or lesser comps. In a glaring example, a few years ago, Mohegan Sun reduced its theo by 70%, so a $1000 daily player became a $300 player. Obviously comps and bennies plummeted as a result, tier levels changed. Unfortunately
what followed was still worse, as all of the best VP machines were either eliminated or excluded from earning ANY club points whatsoever.
I’m not familiar with the 4 Queens, and wouldn’t presume to speculate any further. But it would be interesting to know if other players have suffered the same fate.
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
From: “Albert Pearson eh…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: “vpF…@…com” <vpF…@…com>
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 2:31 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
We have been going to 4 Queens for 10 years. Our latest offer doesn’t offer any free rooms unless we buy 1 night first. This is the first time this has happened.
Our play has not changed.
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
LR
Our play has increased considerably over the years.
LR
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
AP hit it directly on the head…after a while, the casino sees that it cannot make money on you (in their eyes) because your play hasn’t changed at all.
Ultimately (this was told to me by a long time SENIOR host) what the casino wants is for you to keep raising your playing level, and they will keep giving you comps (kind of like putting a carrot in front of a horse, to entice it to keep moving). Once they realize you’ve “plateaued” they will pull-back (remove the carrot) and move on to other customers…it’s a simple business model really.
The only people who wouldn’t have followed that have all since got out of the business (Benny Binion, Jackie Gaughn, John Ascuaga)
To avoid this, somehow get ahold of a “new account” and start off with say $10k coin-in, then next trip move up to $11k coin-in, and so on and so on…watch what happens.
(I actually did this, except I was more strict, I did $10,005, then $10,010. LOL)
Does this means LV casinos will go the way of AC casinos? All closing down?
Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
That’s certainly what is in play here. That’s how they give themselves raises.
A.P.
From: “Alan Oncken ellenora…@…com [vpFREE]”
<vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
Thought casinos automatically give themselves “raises” by constantly increasing the “tier” level requirements.
On 8 September 2014 15:49, Albert Pearson eh…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
It seems to me that it is just normal price increases, the same as gas or anything else.
A.P.
In your original post you said your play had been consistent.
I am now confused.
If you could post your play history from the past 10 years perhaps someone could give you a better explanation as to what may be
happening.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE]
4 Queens
Our play has increased considerably over the years.
LR
The problem is possibly that your play hasn’t changed. If you haven’t had a raise in 10 years I’d be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I’ve noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I’m raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
Trying to post play history is impossible!
We have decicded it would be cheaper to pay to stay somewhere else and play wherever we want. You have to figure how much that free room is costing you.
LR
----- Original Message -----
From:
Albert Pearson eh…@…com [vpFREE]
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
In your original post you said your play had been consistent.
I am now confused.
If you could post your play history from the past 10 years perhaps someone could give you a better explanation as to what may be happening.
A.P.
From: “Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
Our play has increased considerably over the years.
LR
The problem is possibly that your play hasn't changed. If you haven't had a raise in 10 years I'd be surprised. The casinos are looking for a raise. I've noticed that some of my offers have been reduced over the past year. I'm raising my play in the hope that my offers will go back to their previous levels.
Some will close some will open. Las Vegas is a much different market than Atlantic city. It is much more of a tourist destination, and you have people coming in from all over the world.
The Las Vegas casinos have already gone through learning about more competition from nearby
states. Atlantic city didn’t react as well to the nearby competition and have paid the price.
Perhaps the reduction in casinos in Atlantic city will make the ones that are left better or at least smarter.
I still believe that more competition
is better for the customers.
A.P.
From: “David Kathary dw…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
Does this means LV casinos will go the way of AC casinos? All closing down?
Vegas777 vegas…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
Can’t understand why they are treating loyal players like this. We have lots of offers from other casinos, so guess we won’t be staying there anymore.
The 4 Queens has been very generous for many years, much more so than many other casinos. I’m not surprised that they have decided to tighten up some. Although it may take more play to get better free play offers and free rooms, this is offset some by their new system of earning comps as well as earning points. A recent letter spelled it out: For every 40 points earned you will receive 2 comp dollars along with $1 cashback. These comp dollars can be used toward your hotel bill (as well as for food) – so for those who play a lot, they may still end up with getting their rooms free or heavily discounted.
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
I have had a great experience over the last 4 years ever since i started to play “heavy” there. The more I play the better the comps. They lowered their mailer once. I had come in at midnight and my play for 3 days was down. I think that was the reason. I have not been treated as well at other casinos or hosts.
To: vpF…@…com
From: vpF…@…com
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 22:01:50 -0700
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] 4 Queens
The 4 Queens has been very generous for many years, much more so than many other casinos. I’m not surprised that they have decided to tighten up some. Although it may take more play to get better free play offers and free rooms, this is offset some by their new system of earning comps as well as earning points. A recent letter spelled it out: For every 40 points earned you will receive 2 comp dollars along with $1 cashback. These comp dollars can be used toward your hotel bill (as well as for food) – so for those who play a lot, they may still end up with getting their rooms free or heavily discounted.
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/