vpFREE2 Forums

3 Royal vs. High pair

(In fact, that's a
little over-simplified but the bottom line is more ER = more royals
in the long run, assuming losing massive amounts of money would make
you play less - otherwise you should simply go for the royal on every
hand.)

I'm sorry, but the equation "more ER = more royals" is simply not true.

The max-EV strategy focuses intensely on squeezing the last drop
of EV from the game without any regard whatsoever for the impact
on frequency of royals.

Now let me ask you this -- how do you define "more royals"? Here
are some possible ways:

1) Most royals per game played. This is an extremely expensive
way to play, but increases your probability of hitting a royal on the
next play by roughly a factor of two.

2) Most royals per dollars consumed through losses. I call this
the min_cost(royal) strategy. It is much different than max-EV
strategy, but is still positive EV whenever the max-EV strategy
is favorable to the player.

3) Maximum likelihood of surviving until hitting a royal. I call this
the best_shot(royal) strategy. For a given starting bankroll, this
strategy gives you the maximum probability of having your bankroll
survive until you hit a royal. This strategy is slightly different
than the min_cost(royal) strategy, but again it is much different
than max-EV strategy. This strategy tends to be very close to
the strategy which minimizes risk-of-ruin.

Further, I would argue that, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVE, this is
the wrong move (assuming that there are other VP games available with
higher variances and higher ERs, which is usually the case). Even if
your objective is to score more jackpots and even if you're willing
to give up ER to do it, this is the wrong way to achieve that goal.

Not necessarily. If your objective truly is a higher frequency of royals,
then playing more agressively is the only way to achieve that objective.

Paradoxically, if your objective is to have your bankroll survive longer
in order to increase your chances of (eventually) hitting a royal,
then the optimal strategy is best_shot(royal), which tries for royals
less often compared to the max-EV strategy.

So, if your objective is to go after more jackpots, what you should
do is to play this hand by the book.

Sorry, but the max-EV "book" is the wrong book to read if your
objective is anything other than "maximize EV". Different objectives
almost always lead to a different form of optimal strategy.

···

On Wednesday 20 October 2004 07:31 pm, blaw57 wrote:

It is nice to hear that you have been able to connect on so many 3

to

a royal holds, since this is a 1 in 1081 chance, but as we all know,
anything can and does happen. One thing to think about when you

keep

a High pair in JOB about 1/6 of the time it turns into a 2 pair and
pays double, this is quite a bit of the value of a high pair and
depending on the exact 3 to the royal that anyone chooses to keep

over

the high pair they are giving up between 0.34 units to 1.44 units

each

and every time. I dont mind if you choose this option because, like
someone else said you are helping subsidise the good games so they

can

stick around longer and that is good for me, so in that respect,

Thank

You very much.

Take care
Jim

I don't think I'm much help to your cause. I only go to the casino
once a week and never take more than $700 as a bankroll. The casino
isn't getting rich on my account.
What makes matters worse is that I live in NY and we only have Indian
casinos with horrible pay tables. Places I'm sure you wouldn't be
caught dead in.
Because of this I'm only up a little over 10k since beginning to play
VP seriously in March. I know this is nothing compared to what you
lucky dogs must do in Vegas with all those full-pay machines but I
still have fun.
I know from coming to this forum from time to time that this lucky
streak is going to end. My EV, ER,and variance will align with
Jupiter and Mars and "POOF" the streak is ended but, hey it's been
fun!
Also thanks for the valuable info on JOB but to be honest I only play
JOB on winpoker at home when I have insomnia. That's not to say that
I won't use your advice in some late night session.
Anything else I can do to insure full pay VP stays around don't
hesitate to ask. I might get to Vegas some day and I would sure like
to play those full pays like you do.

Thanks,
Tom

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jimnkelli" <jbecker11@c...> wrote:

I don't think I'm much help to your cause. I only go to the casino
once a week and never take more than $700 as a bankroll. The casino
isn't getting rich on my account.
What makes matters worse is that I live in NY and we only have Indian
casinos with horrible pay tables. Places I'm sure you wouldn't be
caught dead in.
Because of this I'm only up a little over 10k since beginning to play
VP seriously in March. I know this is nothing compared to what you
lucky dogs must do in Vegas with all those full-pay machines but I
still have fun.
I know from coming to this forum from time to time that this lucky
streak is going to end. My EV, ER,and variance will align with
Jupiter and Mars and "POOF" the streak is ended but, hey it's been
fun!
Also thanks for the valuable info on JOB but to be honest I only play
JOB on winpoker at home when I have insomnia. That's not to say that
I won't use your advice in some late night session.
Anything else I can do to insure full pay VP stays around don't
hesitate to ask. I might get to Vegas some day and I would sure like
to play those full pays like you do.

Thanks,
Tom

Hey Tom, that is great that you are up on not so good machines, the
point of my post is really just, no matter what you play, it is a good
idea to choose the mathmatically correct cards and you will almost
always do better in the long run. I am in STL and we have only a very
few decent choices of games to play, but I do try to only play the
best payscales available and maximize my time with bonus promotions
and such, so far the last two years have been good to me compared to
my old days of craps, bj, and whatever seemed good at the time. I
believe that if the casinos have lived by the math for all these years
then maybe it is a good idea for me (everyone else can make thier own
choice). I hope my posts are always for the betterment of the
community, because that is how they are intended.

Happy Royals
Jim

>
> I don't think I'm much help to your cause. I only go to the

casino

> once a week and never take more than $700 as a bankroll. The

casino

> isn't getting rich on my account.
> What makes matters worse is that I live in NY and we only have

Indian

> casinos with horrible pay tables. Places I'm sure you wouldn't be
> caught dead in.
> Because of this I'm only up a little over 10k since beginning to

play

> VP seriously in March. I know this is nothing compared to what

you

> lucky dogs must do in Vegas with all those full-pay machines but

I

> still have fun.
> I know from coming to this forum from time to time that this

lucky

> streak is going to end. My EV, ER,and variance will align with
> Jupiter and Mars and "POOF" the streak is ended but, hey it's

been

> fun!
> Also thanks for the valuable info on JOB but to be honest I only

play

> JOB on winpoker at home when I have insomnia. That's not to say

that

> I won't use your advice in some late night session.
> Anything else I can do to insure full pay VP stays around don't
> hesitate to ask. I might get to Vegas some day and I would sure

like

> to play those full pays like you do.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom

Hey Tom, that is great that you are up on not so good machines, the
point of my post is really just, no matter what you play, it is a

good

idea to choose the mathmatically correct cards and you will almost
always do better in the long run. I am in STL and we have only a

very

few decent choices of games to play, but I do try to only play the
best payscales available and maximize my time with bonus promotions
and such, so far the last two years have been good to me compared to
my old days of craps, bj, and whatever seemed good at the time. I
believe that if the casinos have lived by the math for all these

years

then maybe it is a good idea for me (everyone else can make thier

own

choice). I hope my posts are always for the betterment of the
community, because that is how they are intended.

Happy Royals
Jim

Hope your next two years are even better than your last two.

Good Luck

Tom

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jimnkelli" <jbecker11@c...> wrote: