vpFREE2 Forums

1st Visit

#1

Trump now has about 100 machines with 99.8% games (TP+) and 99.73% games (NSUD) so they are clearly 2nd best in the Chicago Area. These games are offered at 5c (new), 25c and $1. I cannot believe how many people play DDB instead of TP+ on these machines. Also many players play pseudo NSUD on Trump paying 20-12-10 instead of 25-16-10.

Their rebate system is what has turned many players off as it is non-specific and related to whether the player has won lost.

As to winning or losing, I do not think any of the equipment (IGT or LED) is gaffed. Many VP games have a low percentage of hands that return more than your bet.
One Eyed Jacks has slightly under 9% "winning" results and most non-wild games that pay 1 for 1 on two pair are between 12% and 13%. It is very easy to have losing streaks if you do not hit the big hands (4K or better).

···

----- Original Message -----
From: robert tryjefaczka
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/11/2004 10:10:35 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE_Chicago] 1st Visit

i, also seem to win more playing trumps lower percentage games, than MJ's 99.5%+ games. is anyone else in the situation?

Howard Stern <howard.w.stern@earthlink.net> wrote:One note about the Don and Mike bar on the Majestic Star. Even at reset, there are three games on that $1 machine that are over 99.8% including the insanely difficult 99.98% one eyed jacks game. Also the 25c Multi-Strike (21 games in the bar and 4 more downstairs) have three games that return 99.9% or more. These are the highest return games in IN (Along with 99.92% 20-10-6-5 joker two pair at nickels and dollars). Since part of the rebate is 0.1% same day cashback all of these plays are barely positive. Yes, that room is often empty because it is COLD!! That room used to be the Super Star lounge (Like the Diamond Member lounge at Harrah's) but they have moved it off the boat to get an extra 37 VP games in!

----- Original Message -----
From: correna2
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/11/2004 8:22:18 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] 1st Visit to Trump

Just thot I'd throw in some of my own comments/observations after
going to Indiana on a whim last weekend. Got a last minute room at
Harrah's (comped of course) on Saturday nite. Arrived at about 9pm.
We decided to play the 25c progressives for a bit before getting a
good night's sleep. I played the BDW as the prog was up to $1800+.
Put a $20 in and played on that for a good hour or so before it
started eating benji's. My gambling cohort hit a RF on DDB for $1173
during the 2nd hour. We quit for the nite and went back to the room.
I was really hungry, so close to 1am I ordered room service; an
omelet that came with potatoes. They were both absolutely delicious!
Also ordered bread pudding (I have a sweet tooth) - took 1 bite and
left the rest as it was mediocre at best.

Checked out Sun am and went to Majestic. I had been there 2x many
years ago and recalled it being dumpy. I was pleasantly surprised at
how nice it was now. We checked out the prog at the bar - decided
not to play them because 1) it was close to reset 2) it was freezing
over there and I'm usually cold anyway. Settled into the 50c
machines. That was uuuugly. We played for about 3 hours with 1 4oak
between us. Decided to walk over to Trump. I was down to my last
$20 (don't you hate when that happens?), so figured it would be a
brief visit. We loved it there! The music was great (a factor
overlooked/unimportant to many) and loud enough to enjoy over
machine noise. The staff was very friendly to us as well. Drink
service was much better than at Majestic too. We stayed until almost
2am. Really didn't want to leave, but had a two hour drive home. I
hit loads of 4oak's including A's 5x. I still lost overall for the
trip, but those hits made a decent dent in the weekend losses.
Traffic was great and I got home in 90 minutes. We'll see what kind
of offers our play generates...

Correna Correna

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#2

--- In vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stern"
<howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:

Trump now has about 100 machines with 99.8% games (TP+) and 99.73%

games (NSUD) so they are clearly 2nd best in the Chicago Area. These
games are offered at 5c (new), 25c and $1. I cannot believe how many
people play DDB instead of TP+ on these machines. Also many players
play pseudo NSUD on Trump paying 20-12-10 instead of 25-16-10.

It baffles me too, but there are plenty of folks who are ecstatic over
the $.05 & $.10 paytables available in the Don&Mike's Multi-Strikes at
MS. Go figure. OTOH, perfectly reasonable vp veterans have been
observed playing Double Bonus Deuces on machines that also offer One
Eyed Jacks. :slight_smile:

Their rebate system is what has turned many players off as it is

non-specific and related to whether the player has won lost.

Amazing. I never came across a casino that operated this way, at least
not in Vegas.

As to winning or losing, I do not think any of the equipment (IGT or

LED) is gaffed.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. There's a very good interview of
gaming control board personnel and slots manufacturers available on
the Internet. Included are comments by the then president of IGT on
the "near miss" controversy. Those comments did not give me a warm and
fuzzy feeling about IGT products. The saving grace is that gaming
commision inspection is now quite rigorous so that players can be
confident that new machines are ok. The commision labs actually use
the source code to generate duplicate EEPROMS which are then compared
against the equipment originals for both content and function.
However, it was *not* confirmed in this article that this had always
been their procedure. If a manufacturer knew the exact randomness
testing methodology of the lab and was not required to provide source
code they could easily contrive pseudo-random generation that could
fool the labs. Casinos deploying such machines would do so without any
knowledge of this and would probably make a good buck which would
probably have the desired effect of more orders for the manufacturer.
A gaff doesn't have to be as blatant as the American Coin scandal to
seriously hurt the vp public. It could very well be that the $.50
machine in question isn't gaffed at all, but bizzarre anti-percentage
behavior that repeats over the course of thousands of hands certainly
raises suspicions as it becomes more than just a dry spell.

Many VP games have a low percentage of hands that return more than

your bet.

I'm not sure for whose benefit this statement was included. I think
everyone in this forum knows this and would not disagree.

One Eyed Jacks has slightly under 9% "winning" results and most

non-wild games that pay 1 for 1 on two pair are between 12% and 13%.
It is very easy to have losing streaks if you do not hit the big hands
(4K or better).

Yup, quite true. What's often noteworthy on these long losing streaks
is not that the big hands are missed, but the repetition of junk
that's served up.

From: robert tryjefaczka
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/11/2004 10:10:35 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE_Chicago] 1st Visit

i, also seem to win more playing trumps lower percentage games, than

MJ's 99.5%+ games. is anyone else in the situation?

Howard Stern <howard.w.stern@e...> wrote:One note about the Don and

Mike bar on the Majestic Star. Even at reset, there are three games on
that $1 machine that are over 99.8% including the insanely difficult
99.98% one eyed jacks game. Also the 25c Multi-Strike (21 games in the
bar and 4 more downstairs) have three games that return 99.9% or more.
These are the highest return games in IN (Along with 99.92% 20-10-6-5
joker two pair at nickels and dollars). Since part of the rebate is
0.1% same day cashback all of these plays are barely positive. Yes,
that room is often empty because it is COLD!! That room used to be the
Super Star lounge (Like the Diamond Member lounge at Harrah's) but
they have moved it off the boat to get an extra 37 VP games in!

···

----- Original Message -----

----- Original Message -----
From: correna2
To: vpFREE_Chicago@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 6/11/2004 8:22:18 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_Chicago] 1st Visit to Trump

Just thot I'd throw in some of my own comments/observations after
going to Indiana on a whim last weekend. Got a last minute room at
Harrah's (comped of course) on Saturday nite. Arrived at about 9pm.
We decided to play the 25c progressives for a bit before getting a
good night's sleep. I played the BDW as the prog was up to $1800+.
Put a $20 in and played on that for a good hour or so before it
started eating benji's. My gambling cohort hit a RF on DDB for $1173
during the 2nd hour. We quit for the nite and went back to the room.
I was really hungry, so close to 1am I ordered room service; an
omelet that came with potatoes. They were both absolutely delicious!
Also ordered bread pudding (I have a sweet tooth) - took 1 bite and
left the rest as it was mediocre at best.

Checked out Sun am and went to Majestic. I had been there 2x many
years ago and recalled it being dumpy. I was pleasantly surprised at
how nice it was now. We checked out the prog at the bar - decided
not to play them because 1) it was close to reset 2) it was freezing
over there and I'm usually cold anyway. Settled into the 50c
machines. That was uuuugly. We played for about 3 hours with 1 4oak
between us. Decided to walk over to Trump. I was down to my last
$20 (don't you hate when that happens?), so figured it would be a
brief visit. We loved it there! The music was great (a factor
overlooked/unimportant to many) and loud enough to enjoy over
machine noise. The staff was very friendly to us as well. Drink
service was much better than at Majestic too. We stayed until almost
2am. Really didn't want to leave, but had a two hour drive home. I
hit loads of 4oak's including A's 5x. I still lost overall for the
trip, but those hits made a decent dent in the weekend losses.
Traffic was great and I got home in 90 minutes. We'll see what kind
of offers our play generates...

Correna Correna

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