vpFREE2 Forums

$1200 W2G

While it may be the "rules as they are written" we're certainly dealing in minutiae to call someone who doesn't report a $1000 jackpot as "dishonest". It's like calling someone who goes 60 in a 55 zone a criminal. Technically a violation, but usually within the realm of tolerance granted by the local police.

The IRS rules are already ridiculous, and I can't blame someone who chooses to use their own system to his or her advantage. One member of the group reported the experience of an elderly man screwed by the system. Far more people are screwed each year. You have to report gambling winnings on the first page of the 1040 form, and those winnings are added to your earned income to come up with your "Adjusted gross income". Gambling losses are reported on schedule C. Someone who gets a $1200 W2G, but doesn't itemize, had to pay the tax even though his loss would more than cover the winnings. I itemize, but because the losses are deducted on schedule C, I lose deductions that I would otherwise be legally able to take- in order to deduct medical expenses, they have to exceed a certain percentage of the AGI. Raise my AGI, and I lose some of my deductions. Same with unreimbursed business expenses.

Most people who gamble are not knowledgeable, and are net losers. Even if they hit a jackpot, they will eventually lose more than they've won. (While" this is not strictly the case for all people, under all circumstances", I think that is an unrealistic expectation for any regulation). For example, in the mid 90's (before I was aware of advantage play, strategies, or even what the difference in pay tables made) I was the "Royal King" at my local bar, the Inn Zone at Rainbow and Westcliff. One year I hit 17 royals for a total of $27000 (I had a streak for a while, where every Sunday evening, when I went to play, I hit a royal. I think that it was 7 out of 8 Sundays). Anyway, as I was totaling my losses while preparing my taxes, I stopped counting at $30000.

Raising the trigger for W2Gs would go a long way toward making the tax system more equitable. OF course, a complete overhaul would be better, but I'll take anything that I can get.
There seems, however, to be an air of moral superiority in some posts, which I find irritating.

I don't see a problem of moral superiority - If you are a casual player and your losses are more than your wins and you itemize they wipe each other out and you will lose something to the adjusted gross income effect but if you keep records of your sessions th elosses will be small. If you are an advantage player and come out ahead than paying your taxes is like any other income, it's required. There are all kinds of ways to decrease taxes, from 401K's and 401b's, to spending accounts, to IRA's to mortgage and student loan interest deductions. It isn't fare to ask another to pay taxes that you rightfully owe. A suggestion is to get a good certfied accountant and then give him or her all the records of your play so as to pay th eleast tax the law allows, and on top of that his or her fee can be deductible if along with other miscellaneous deductions is more than 2% of your income.

Graham Lees <GSLees@ix.netcom.com> wrote: While it may be the "rules as they are written" we're certainly dealing in minutiae to call someone who doesn't report a $1000 jackpot as "dishonest". It's like calling someone who goes 60 in a 55 zone a criminal. Technically a violation, but usually within the realm of tolerance granted by the local police.

The IRS rules are already ridiculous, and I can't blame someone who chooses to use their own system to his or her advantage. One member of the group reported the experience of an elderly man screwed by the system. Far more people are screwed each year. You have to report gambling winnings on the first page of the 1040 form, and those winnings are added to your earned income to come up with your "Adjusted gross income". Gambling losses are reported on schedule C. Someone who gets a $1200 W2G, but doesn't itemize, had to pay the tax even though his loss would more than cover the winnings. I itemize, but because the losses are deducted on schedule C, I lose deductions that I would otherwise be legally able to take- in order to deduct medical expenses, they have to exceed a certain percentage of the AGI. Raise my AGI, and I lose some of my deductions. Same with unreimbursed business expenses.

Most people who gamble are not knowledgeable, and are net losers. Even if they hit a jackpot, they will eventually lose more than they've won. (While" this is not strictly the case for all people, under all circumstances", I think that is an unrealistic expectation for any regulation). For example, in the mid 90's (before I was aware of advantage play, strategies, or even what the difference in pay tables made) I was the "Royal King" at my local bar, the Inn Zone at Rainbow and Westcliff. One year I hit 17 royals for a total of $27000 (I had a streak for a while, where every Sunday evening, when I went to play, I hit a royal. I think that it was 7 out of 8 Sundays). Anyway, as I was totaling my losses while preparing my taxes, I stopped counting at $30000.

Raising the trigger for W2Gs would go a long way toward making the tax system more equitable. OF course, a complete overhaul would be better, but I'll take anything that I can get.
There seems, however, to be an air of moral superiority in some posts, which I find irritating.

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